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bbabich
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is what I have always aspired to be, a Rich Coyle resin monkey.

Do you actually pay or is it like I heard… trades only? I understand they do all of the work and you get all of the credit.

Great pyramid structure there.

-Bryan
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racprops
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Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2444
Location: Phoenix AZ

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha, your hired...

You have heard of JR and Masao??

I give credit for work and ideas and pay money.

Rich
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SLK
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Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't own the rights to the prop. You have been in the business long enough to know this happens. It's the chance you take. I was glad to see that you are taking steps to make some offically licensed props. Spinner44.com is entirely correct in saying you need to investigate cheaper ways to make product. It's common sense. I did my part to help you cut costs for laser cut parts on your other projects.

You should consider being the maker of more licensed props to avoid problems like this. As long as you keep it on a small time garage level the recasting thing will arise at some point. An option in finding cheaper means is to perhaps outsource work through different companies. When working with companies you need to maintain a reliable professional working relationship. I would say to anyone that being reliant on fans is a recipe for disaster as we have read that sort of arrangement frequently ends poorly...or in worse case you may find out you are partnered up with someone who was previously convicted of a vile act. I personally would rather outsource to someone who has no interest in the project other than to get it done correctly in a timely and cost effective fashion. Basically Richard, you are a professional model maker and businessman so act like one. In some ways you still are thinking on a fanboy hobby level and you need to move on. Get yourself help on the business end. I have an attorney for some problems and a good accountant for others and I can say it really helps.


And since you mentioned this...

racprops wrote:
I give credit for work and ideas and pay money.

Rich


For years you have posted unlicensed variants of the LIS gun for sale at the RPF. With the exception of one occation you took full credit for the prop. I will agree over time that here and there you have replaced parts I made for the purpose of upgrading. Even for the latest officially licensed model being sold you denied I had any involvement even though I drew the file for the sights/sight mounts and assembled the parts for casting after they were laser cut by a friend. Granted a small part in the latest version but recognition is always nice. We both know how that arrangement ended for me. That's all I plan to say on that matter.
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racprops
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Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2444
Location: Phoenix AZ

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new name?

First hiring a out side shop always costs MORE than doing it myself. I work way too cheap.

I only go to a out side shop when I can not do it myself.

I have never said I have THE copyright, but I do say I own the copy right ON MY PERSONAL WORK.

And I honor that when I buy models, when I bought your old Lost in Space Laser pistol I said I wanted to buy it to make copies, and you sold it with that understanding.

And I did not complain when I started to work on it to find that it was totaly wrong and THE ONLY parts I could use was the muzzle and the sights and a detail disk on the side.

I had to replace everything else. All of the body and grips.

And your right I give credit when asked, I did not list all the help in any document.

Untill latey I did not do COAs.

Your help with laser cut sights did not really help, I could have do it my self and with what happed after I should have.

You OFFERED and I let you help. I did not ask you for them.

I did not denied your help, I did not credit it nor the shop that casted the metal parts not that JR or Neil did some of the work.

Props do not come with a end credits.

Your other points are well taken, but I am in a catch 22, I make so little doing this I can not afford any license deals, they cost tens of thousands, and work FOR companies with licenses has turn out also a waste of time.

So to set things right, SLK made the laser cut....wait he had a friend who we have no name (what was that about credit??) make the sight masters on my Lost in Space Laser Pistol sold by Robort Factory.

Better?

Rich


SLK wrote:
You don't own the rights to the prop. You have been in the business long enough to know this happens. It's the chance you take. I was glad to see that you are taking steps to make some offically licensed props. Spinner44.com is entirely correct in saying you need to investigate cheaper ways to make product. It's common sense. I did my part to help you cut costs for laser cut parts on your other projects.

You should consider being the maker of more licensed props to avoid problems like this. As long as you keep it on a small time garage level the recasting thing will arise at some point. An option in finding cheaper means is to perhaps outsource work through different companies. When working with companies you need to maintain a reliable professional working relationship. I would say to anyone that being reliant on fans is a recipe for disaster as we have read that sort of arrangement frequently ends poorly...or in worse case you may find out you are partnered up with someone who was previously convicted of a vile act. I personally would rather outsource to someone who has no interest in the project other than to get it done correctly in a timely and cost effective fashion. Basically Richard, you are a professional model maker and businessman so act like one. In some ways you still are thinking on a fanboy hobby level and you need to move on. Get yourself help on the business end. I have an attorney for some problems and a good accountant for others and I can say it really helps.


And since you mentioned this...

racprops wrote:
I give credit for work and ideas and pay money.

Rich


For years you have posted unlicensed variants of the LIS gun for sale at the RPF. With the exception of one occation you took full credit for the prop. I will agree over time that here and there you have replaced parts I made for the purpose of upgrading. Even for the latest officially licensed model being sold you denied I had any involvement even though I drew the file for the sights/sight mounts and assembled the parts for casting after they were laser cut by a friend. Granted a small part in the latest version but recognition is always nice. We both know how that arrangement ended for me. That's all I plan to say on that matter.

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I never have enough time to do all I want to do!
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SLK
Community Member


Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

racprops wrote:
A new name?

First hiring a out side shop always costs MORE than doing it myself. I work way too cheap.

I only go to a out side shop when I can not do it myself.

I have never said I have THE copyright, but I do say I own the copy right ON MY PERSONAL WORK.

And I honor that when I buy models, when I bought your old Lost in Space Laser pistol I said I wanted to buy it to make copies, and you sold it with that understanding.

And I did not complain when I started to work on it to find that it was totaly wrong and THE ONLY parts I could use was the muzzle and the sights and a detail disk on the side.

I had to replace everything else. All of the body and grips.

And your right I give credit when asked, I did not list all the help in any document.

Untill latey I did not do COAs.

Your help with laser cut sights did not really help, I could have do it my self and with what happed after I should have.

You OFFERED and I let you help. I did not ask you for them.

I did not denied your help, I did not credit it nor the shop that casted the metal parts not that JR or Neil did some of the work.

Props do not come with a end credits.

Your other points are well taken, but I am in a catch 22, I make so little doing this I can not afford any license deals, they cost tens of thousands, and work FOR companies with licenses has turn out also a waste of time.

So to set things right, SLK made the laser cut....wait he had a friend who we have no name (what was that about credit??) make the sight masters on my Lost in Space Laser Pistol sold by Robort Factory.

Better?

Rich




No, I do not have a new name. SLK is short for St.LouisKid but I am not surprised I have to point that out. You must have been baffled when Kentucky Fried Chicken changed their name to KFC. "Hey look, an entirely new chicken place is using the likeness Col. Sanders."

As far as the cost of an outside shop, thats my point. You are satified being a small time garage shop. You have no ambition to be greater and if thats the case then stop complaining. I go to an outside shop for some situations as it is more cost effective than doing things myself. Just a suggestion.

I never said or implied that you owned the copyright. I just said you should already know what to expect if you don't.

Yes I understood that you were going to make copies of my old LIS gun and have never contested that so don't make an incident where there is none. Again, just pointing out you took all the credit for the parts you did use(more than what you stated).

You knew the LIS gun you bought from me in the early '90's was based on the Shane Johnson pics. Shane Johnson was commonly known for his inaccuracies but his reference was one of the few things going.

You gave me credit that one time after I prompted you to. Any other time I had to pipe up and say what I did and you never acknowledged. Props don't come with end credits so I suppose JR and Masao will not get credit unless posts like this occur.

Yes I offered because I knew it could be done on a laser quickly and far better than you can scratch build. Obviously your work is not as good as a computer and generally your scratchbuilding isn't what it used to be.

No you did not deny my help. Pay attention. You denied I had any part in the production of your newest model LIS gun.

Let me explain the process since new and high tech processes seem to be confusing. A) I drew a file for the parts. B) My friend laser cut the parts. C) I took the cut parts and assembled them so they could be casted. See? I was involved. I hope that clears it up.

As far as credit to the laser operator. You should already know his name since I gave you all his contact info so you could work with him directly on your Greatest American Hero instruction manual. How can you say you don't know who he is? Just proves how much regard you had for the arrangement you had with us. You always complained you could not get money together for other laser shops so my friend was willing to work with you directly on the GAH project. You failed him on the LIS gun parts deal and flushed an opportunity.

So like I said, when you deal with people as you do and if you are satified with your current situation(which I imagine you are since you have been maintaining the status quo for decades) then stop complaining.

I am suprised to see you name calling with words like liar, thief, and cheat. Yes, I will agree that Sids work looks suprisingly like yours. In some pics there are parts that look better than yours. I recall the incident where you saw a photo of my scratch built Logans Run gun and you were certain it was one of yours. I remember a time when you saw live and in person one of Ed's phasers and was certain it was one of yours. I actually had to explain to you why it wasn't yours.

Feel free to honor your past deal with me and the laser operator whom you have conveniently forgotten. Shall I recall the email I sent you with his contact info as proof that you knew who he was? If you do, please do better than offering some slides that you got for free.

If you reply, please read what I have said carefully so you can make your replies pertinent to what I have said.
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SLK
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Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not going to bicker anymore with you about this here Richard. Looks like you have made your hands full anyway.

If you have a genuine desire to make this right you can email me.
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racprops
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Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2444
Location: Phoenix AZ

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After what you did we are even.

Rich
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bbabich
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

racprops wrote:
Ha ha, your hired...

You have heard of JR and Masao??

I give credit for work and ideas and pay money.

Rich




JR is the one that sleeps a lot right?

Hired? You better talk compensation before throwing that out... I am not a resin monkey.

-Bryan
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