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jameth
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no spring in my thumb release and there never was. I noticed when I first got it that it did not have the spring in it and I just thought it was not in Rich's design. Only the cylinder shaft has a spring. I have taken it apart several times since getting it.

I'll have Rich send one


Bullets fit in fine as far as how they should fit in the cylinder. They are just rubbing against either the top or back. I can push the cylinder with bullets in but to get the cylinder out with bullets in it it has to be pushed through from the other side very hard.
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jameth
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm gonna shave the back and or top so I have the nice loading with the flick of the wrist propsjohnnyb mentiond but I want to get the cylinder in right and spinning perfectly using the tube idea first and then see how in closes and opens.
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jameth
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be misunderstanding ealier posts.

I talked to Rich and he confirmed there is no spring in the thumb release.
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marsattack
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well there is not a picture in Rich's photobucket , but Johnny has mentioned of a particular spring that is in fact in the bag.
I am sure that adding this spring Jameth , would help to one of your problem. Or any spring for that matter as long as it is bigger than the hole.

The other problem is the spinning cylinder and then another is getting it to close.
I did a lot of work so the cylinder spins freely.
The reason in MY blaster to why the bullets are not closing is because the cylinder is too far back, as Johnny mentioned .
The problem is that the bracket holding the cylinder is twisted and bent, creating a gap at the front of the cylinder bigger rather than allowing this gap in the rear.
I will dismantle this again , take pics tonight and hopefully helps you to do the same.
I can get a piece of brass bush to you if you wanna make the cylinder spin.
I doubt you will get the pewter to do this .
Mars
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propsjonnyb
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't doubt Jameth when he says the spring isn't there, but for Rich to say there isn't one is wrong, the cylinder thumb catch does need a spring which keeps the screw out of the release hole in the back of the gun frame , I don't really mean out - just back from being flush with the frame, the ejector rod end fits into this hole when you 'snap' close the drum - to release the ejector rod you depress the thumb catch forward which depresses the spring & pushes the screw into the hole and ( presses out ) releases the end of the ejector rod allowing the drum to fall open - which is how almost all guns with thumb catches work both real and replica .
As Mars points out in his comments the arm must be 90 degrees flush with the rod, any slight diviation and the cylinder drum will not fit ,his idea regarding the bushing is an excellent one , you can get it to revolve without but you need a lot of silicon grease to do it , pewter on pewter, so I would recommend fitting a bush brass tube down the cylinder drum, straightening the arm in a vice using a tap hammer and 't'square , ensuring the fit into the gunframe and ensuring the mounting screw is correctly fitted as well, should go a long way to addressing these issues.
Jameth, personnally from what you describe, I think your problem is the ejector rod arm, my first build had exactly the same issue and it was because the rod was slightly twisted off 90 degrees , straightening it in a vice and checking the 90 degree angle with a t'square and tap hammer test fitting each slight adjustment back into the gun frame until the fit is correct is the way to go to fix it.


Last edited by propsjonnyb on Sun May 16, 2010 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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jameth
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Painting versus bleuing/dye question.

I was wondering what you guys thought about painting the parts to be blued/dyed. It would be a gun metal gray like I used on my Vader reveal seen here. (It's also another shameless excuse to show this baby off. I worked on it for a long time)

http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=80806

I'm wondering about benefits of painting versus blueing/dye and the drawbacks
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marsattack
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that vader helmet is probably better than what they ever had on the set!!!
awesome work,
as far as blueing vs painting....
when we have resin we want it to look like metal , now we have metal ........ we want it to look like painted resin?????
just joking, if you can paint it , very cool although in my opinion blueing is still conditioning a METAL part.
mars
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propsjonnyb
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree the Vader helmet is very nice comparing it as I have a filmed stunt reveal - quite cool really, now to the question - painting re blueing?? , well since you can't 'blue' Rich's pewter alloy , and have to use chemical alternatives eg Pewter Black , whatever feels and looks right ( gunmetal paint - metalcote etc) to you , that's what you should go with , I've use metalcote in the past and it works well , I've also use ' bare metal foil' also to good effect .

I'm finalising as I write a process that will electroplate pewter , (electroplating for those that don't know is a method of bonding metal at the atomic level by using an electric current to force metal salts in solution, to give up their metal atoms and bond to the surface of your substrate ( big word for whatever you want to plate !) - since the bonding occurs at the atomic level the layer is microns thick, but is a permanent finish , depending on other details too numerous to mention here, with pewter it is difficult to do for the reasons mentioned , but it is possible , firstly you have to have a totally smooth and pristine surface because any blemish, scratch mark, or spot will translate through the whole process - I'd say one has to be positively 'anal' with the polishing ( and I apologise in advance for that remark !) but it's true - then a base metal layer has to be sublimated onto the pewter to make it electroconductive ( raw pewter will conduct a current but it's dependant on the alloy metal mix ) that takes a day - now a layer of copper goes on top , then a layer of bronze and finally a layer of nickel , why nickel you ask?? well you can 'BLUE' nickel with almost any 'gun blue' agent, since it's what a lot of real guns are plated with to protect the finish. So watch this space , photos to follow - oh and by the way , I have also developed the system whereby I can now plate onto resin - Yes that right RESIN! and for those interested I can plate in copper , bronze, brass, nickel , chrome , black chrome , real silver, 18k & 24k gold in all its various types ( rose , green, white,) , palladium and platinum !!
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jameth
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay problem 145 on the gun glitch list.

I really don't want a glued in front trigger and so my thought was to add in a simple spring. Yeah, simple, okay. Long story short the best result comes from using a piece of spring steel from a swiss army knife scissors. Trimmed and placed it works real real good. But it slowly gets pushed back and slips under the real trigger so when you pull the real trigger the end of the spring goes under and the real trigger won't recover.

So I need to know how to glue the spring steel to the front trigger. Metal to metal what's the best adhesive??????? Super glue won't do it BTW

Thanks
Tom

BTW just painted the clip, housing and side pieces Satin Black. Will post pics tomorrow. That was a lot of filing, sanding, and steel wooling Shocked
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racprops
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow this is getting interesting.

First the spring issue:

In truth I had not put a spring on the thumb release, most of the time I have been able to get it to fall back from the spring on the pin in the swing arm. I bevel the pin and adjust the set/lifting/pushing screw so it just clear the cylinder chamber wall and thus just lifts the pin out of the hole.

I will try this on a couple and see how it works...

On a real bull dog they drill a small hole into the thumb reease on the outside and a very small spring is there to push the thumb release back.

All barrels need to be shortened to fit the cylinder into the pistol body, some as much as ¼ inch.

Rich

PS for some reason I am not getting emails telling me of the posting here.

Working again...
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racprops
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could drill a very small hole in the frame and stick in a very small pin to keep the spring in place.

And really 145 glitches??

Rich

jameth wrote:
Okay problem 145 on the gun glitch list.

I really don't want a glued in front trigger and so my thought was to add in a simple spring. Yeah, simple, okay. Long story short the best result comes from using a piece of spring steel from a swiss army knife scissors. Trimmed and placed it works real real good. But it slowly gets pushed back and slips under the real trigger so when you pull the real trigger the end of the spring goes under and the real trigger won't recover.

So I need to know how to glue the spring steel to the front trigger. Metal to metal what's the best adhesive??????? Super glue won't do it BTW

Thanks
Tom

BTW just painted the clip, housing and side pieces Satin Black. Will post pics tomorrow. That was a lot of filing, sanding, and steel wooling Shocked

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jameth
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really wish some other people would chime in with how their builds are going. There are 4 other deluxe models other than mine. Many, many kits yet there seem to be about 5 of us working on this.

I would really like to know how it is going for everyone else.

I'm very much want to here from the other deluxe buyers especially.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly in a way, I have found that a lot of people buy kits never to build them. (a sort of Got it, now I need to find……)

That was another reason I preferred to do full buildups, they got a completed model from me.

And another problem is no matter how much I share in how to’s and tips and tricks, some will still mess things up.

These are complex models and it can take a couple builds to figure out how everything fits and to get the hang of it.

Three of the deluxe kits are going overseas and have been awaiting a safe deliver of a earlier shipment.

Rich
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Michael
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm one of the ones who got the kit but hasn't started, I won't have time until June. This has been an enlightening read so far.

My biggest concern is aligning the grip frame, I did look at the updated pics, but the butt end of my frame is about and 1/8th to 3/16th wider than the plastic grip, so I think it's going to take some reshaping of the grip frame to get it to align.

Anyway,
I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions once I get started.
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propsjonnyb
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The spring clip idea is a good one, there are small holes in the triggers where the 'real' gun springs go , you'll need to drill a small hole in the gunframe for the front trigger as there isn't one there ( as Rich normally fixes the front trigger just like on the original 'hero' prop) for the front trigger spring - like there is for the back one , I would use thick superglue gel and ZAP acellerator, just to fix the spring clip ends in their respective holes and them fill with steel epoxy , do each end in turn, as once you fix the trigger in , you'll have the spring under tension and it could possibly jump out !

Aligning the gun frame to the grip handle is not a big issue now, as Rich has provided really good instruction's on how to do this , I would test fit parts regularly as you do the adjustments , as some need slightly more than others and sometimes only a slight adjustment to get them aligned properly.
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marsattack
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

145 glitches ....lol
anyways we got all the help we need right here on this forum , i hope!

I will post a few pics to show some of the initial problems i had concerning what sections to grind , here with a pen i have shown what you need to remove , it is at least 3 mm or so like Rich pointed out


grinded the pin to suit the brass insert in the cylinder:


if your lever when closed looks anything like this , you will have to square it so it is closer as the arrows point out, the cylinder will move forward and the bullets will fit.

Play around as it will give so the cylinder with bullets fits and spins freely.
By adding the brass tubing the cylinder has less play to move and get caught on the sides , if this makes sense?






Now for the 146th problem, lol. lets talk about these grips. First i thought the grip handle was out , but then i examined both orange grips and found that they are very different in size at the bottom . This is going to be very hard to grind the handle to suit.
I casted an old sidkit one which is as thick as Rich's but not as long to be able to work with the handle....result NOT GOOD.

I was going to cast out in pewter a finished grip handle so i could give it to those who needed it for free and save them the nightmare of doing this part of the build , but i have no grips (orange) to really work with as they are not the same.
When i did manage to get close, I noticed the but plate was very small , therefore I have something that is not right.
I may need Rich's help on this before continuing.
Either the grips are not right, or the butt plate .
JOhnny , have you come accross this one?

As shown on this last pic, i do not think that shving the gripframe on the sides will help , which is at least 2 to 3 mm on EITHER side.
I would have no grip frame left as it would have no meat left towards the channel groove inside the gripframe.

[img]

[/img]

[img]

[/img]

[img]

[/img]

[img]
[/img]


Last edited by marsattack on Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Staar
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

racprops wrote:
Sadly in a way, I have found that a lot of people buy kits never to build them. (a sort of Got it, now I need to find……)

Rich


Mate --

Looking at these problems and the numerous others Mars has listed here, its impossible to imagine any person with modest skills pulling off a decent blaster build - maybe THIS is the reason why - sadly - these blasters won't get built.

Our friend Mars has years of experience in building props and both his skillset and his materials expertise are of the highest order and still this has turned into a bit of a Ben Hur production.

I realise I am going to be burned at the stake for saying this but I can't help but feel that the ball has been dropped with the preparation of this kit - badly. Shocked

Regards

MARK
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racprops
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we were talking a kit version…that would be one thing.

The pictures are of a deluxe kit, it came all built and ready for paint.

All the parts were fitted and working, as a model. The cylinder would turn, not spin, the bullets fit.

I can see no need for a spinning cylinder, as long as you can open the chamber and unload and reload the rounds. That is all I tried to recreate.

It does not turn with the trigger pulls as the mechanics of the real Bulldog could not be reproduced in pewter or zinc.

IF you want those features, you can buy and install a real Bulldog Pistol, for around $300.00.

The grips were sanded and fitted as was the butt plate.

This is like buying a Ford Crown Vic and then rebuilding it like a Royal Royce and wanting all the features of the RR as well.

I have reworked the grips, grips frames and the butt plates until I am blue in the face; they keep coming out off center.

Like the holes behind the screws in the side covers, they are there in the real prop, which means I got them right after all, so I think the drips were off center in the real model…After all they were handmade as well, by the propmaker not a factory, so like the holes in the side covers, perhaps there as well.

I have made at lease a few hundred of these models over the last decade.

I have made a few of these new kits as well, these will go together and make a great model.

Rich
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racprops
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just uploaded a few more pictures of a couple of built models here.

http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad67/racprops/Propsummit%20SE%20Blade%20Runner%20kit%20instructions/

Rich
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marsattack
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich , with all due respect, i am building the model you created , and reading your comments , BETTER THAN YOU !lol
my cylinder spins beautifully with all the bullets in place and in the locked position.
I have put together your kit by using all my skills, patience and hard work.
I have not commented YET on the kit as i have not finished it.
I have studied your photobucket closely , have pmd you about little things and have suggested a few ideas that will not only help the future builder but you also in making a better model and/or clearer instructions.

I have not once compared it to a different kit , my only interst at the moment is to finish this kit and make my thread an asset to the next builder, and to naturally cover most questions they will soon be pming you about.

I am up to the handgrip and grip build.
I would like however an idea or solution into fixing these grips PRIOR to me working on the handgrip.
I am prepared to fix the handguard to suit perfectly to these grips , casted in pewter and offer it for free to those in need. I can then send the mold to you or Johnny prop to cut down on building time for yourselves.

So , i need to know how you reduce the thickness of the grips to suit, i have supplied photos ???
Are there 2 different grips you make?
Please

will try and capture spinning cylinder on pics
Mars
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