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Gytheran



Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: What do people think? Reply with quote

Since I'm experiencing a momentary instance of liquid courage(a period of a couple hours which occur every few years.)...

Provided the goal is to allow for open discussion, this place has a lot of potential. You do, however, have to get A LOT of people here to make any sort of impact. I would really like to have public forum where it's 'OK' to express one's opinions without fear of punishment.

If you do not, you will end up with a forum just like any of the other 'offshoot' forums; dead beyond blief.

I was quite aware of this place as soon as I saw the first banner on the RPF(well before my invite). The issue which prevented me from registering at that time is the belief I've previously heard this title(prop summit), created by an individual whom, I've come to the conclusion, would rather have me look like a fool rather than get to know me. This is backed up by the fact the individual registered a full five days before anyone else on the forums. If you wish to legitimize the forums as your own creation, I would suggest you change the date in which said member registered(and ultimately delete this post). Otherwise, there may be others hesistant to join for similar reasons.

Perhaps I'm being too honest, but that's all I know... call it a character flaw. lol Smile

Please take it for what it is and nothing more. Smile

~Joe
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darkknight0667
Community Guide


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 795
Location: Land O Lakes, FL

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Joe -

Our goal is to build this board into the free and open exchange forum that many have been yearning for. There's no system in place for punishing folks for anything they say. We don't plan on censoring anything that people write here nor censuring them for it either. The most we'll do is to move it from the prop discussion into the Pit if it's necessary.

This place is solely Tom's creation. He did all the planning and set-up of the forum. I was brought in as things got closer to going live as a sounding board and to give my opinions on the layout. Tom then asked me if I'd help keep the place neat, and I gladly accepted.

The basic outline that Tom used in developing the rules for this place have been posted by John in a number of places (http://itaweb.com/jhyphen/toys/images/miscellaneous/Draft%20Guidelines.pdf). Because of this, and John's experience running a forum of his own, Tom sought out his opinion on the rules that he'd created. Intrigued by the prospect of a forum built around what he had deemed the ideal way to run a place like this, John signed on at that point. All this was done before we went live, thus John's "registration date" precedes most people's.

Bear in mind, as I've noted to Osmotic in another thread, no matter how many times someone jumps into a thread and tried to make you look foolish, those posts will all be pruned and sent to the Pit. At that point you can engage them or (and here's the important part) not as you see fit. You can easily refuse to engage them in the Pit and let their baiting make them look like a bully without a target.

I hope that this eases your mind about how this place was conceived and how we anticipate it running.

As for it needing more members, you're absolutely right. So, go out and recruit your friends and have them sign on. Start a "Work In Progress" thread or comment on the ones that have already started (right now, it almost looks like a private "Pat On The Back Club" between Tom and me). The more active projects and show off threads we get, the more interesting this place will be and the more folks will want to join in.

As I said before, welcome aboard. Kick your shoes off, grab a cold one and make yourself at home.
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jhyphen
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Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some commentary:

--No one can make you look foolish. Only you can make yourself look foolish.

--It takes two to tango. Always. "Harassment" and "flaming" usually are how the losing side of a conflict describes what has happened. And in the previous failed attempts at creating a prop forum, the losers always seemed to enjoy a perverse sort of protectionism from the powers that be rather than being expected to stand and fall by their own merit. For example, at propcircle I called bullshit on hydin. He responded by saying I "suck [Steve Dymszo's] cock," among other unpleasantries.

Result? I was banned and he enjoyed immunity. If that's not a double standard, I don't know what it. Same thing happened with micdavis. He got a pass, while I got tossed under the satayaghra express.

IMO, the only "innocent" guy is the one who doesn't engage when presented with an adversarial P.O.V. But anyone who steps into the ring should be left to fend for himself, and not given state's protection if he proves hostile but inept at rhetoric.

--The question was posed what is so important to the hobby that it requires ardent protection? Well, anyone who hasn't seen how the RPF squelches discussions and enforces arbitrary standards is living on a deserted island. ASAP? You get deleted and even banned for trying to protect people from the hobby's worst predators. But simply as a general matter, I can't imagine anything more obnoxious than being told what is acceptable to think and say, especially by one's intellectual inferiors.

--One view is that my presence at propcircle simply revealed the age-old pattern of jhyphen being obnoxious and getting banned. But the accurate view is that I succeeded in exposing the gross flaws in the way the forum was administered. I'm a one-man acid test, and proud to help.

--A myth about me is that I love and thrive on conflict. Untrue. I love and thrive on intellectual honesty and freedom. But when they come up against groupthink and censorship, conflict is inevitable. I just happen to be good at conflict. Comes with my profession.

--I will always return respect in kind. I defy anyone to disprove that premise. I strive to be friendly, helpful and generous, and I presume that everyone deserves courtesy until proven otherwise.

*****

The board that respects diversity of thought and recognizes (and then effectively manages) the normal human tendencies toward conflict and controversy will eclipse all others. It doesn't have to have the numbers of the RPF. 30 interesting and intellectually honest people are preferable to 3000 "sheeple."

Could this be the forum that recalibrates things?

We shall see.

Many have tried.
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amish
Community Guide


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1417
Location: Outside Philadelphia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Joe,

I created this forum not to long ago. Before I went live and started using the sig banner on RPF and such, I enlisted the help of some friends at another forum to see what they thought. Hence, some have earlier registrations then others.

All of this was done before I took the forum "live" so to speak. The advice I have gotten from Pete, John, and others has been invaluable to me. I want to have an open forum where honesty and respect for the hobby and more importantly each other prevails.

To be honest, this forum was created in a matter of days. After seeing how some other forums had been run, I decided that I might as well give it a go. To be honest, I have nothing to lose, but everything to gain. What can I gain from this forum..... First, I gain another community of friends that I can talk to about the hobby I love. Second, I gain a new place to talk about the hobby I love. Third, I get to give back to the hobby I love.

Enough of me being a sap I want this place to be the home to all that find it. Everyone will be treated equally and always have the opportunity to have their voice heard. So, it is quite OK to express your opinion without fear of any punishment.

Thanks for giveing the place a chance. I hope you find yourself here more often.

Tom P.

edit: Pete, I thought we discussed not to talk about our private "Pat on the back club"
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darkknight0667
Community Guide


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 795
Location: Land O Lakes, FL

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was the other "private patting Club" we weren't supposed to talk about. My bad.
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amish
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Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: Outside Philadelphia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn it, I believe you are right Pete!! My bad
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Partsandtechnical



Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Jhyphen has made some very good points.


Allow me, kindly, to add a few more....in no particular order as of yet as I unload them....


--the RPF is fort knox. Great to be inside and see the shiny gold...hard as hell to break once youre on the outside. And that alone spells a flaw in the design. If it were a fair place, why wouldnt there be a reviewal process.


--IMO like it or not, the RPF is now "owned" by MR, sideshow etc. Its large numbers and surfers allowed for free advertising. Cant beat that. And like a cyclical phenomenon, fans thrived on MR threads, MR in turn, sucked up the sun....who wouldnt!?! MR is also rather like Walmart...If you really examine the RPF, you will also notice that all those exciting do-it-yourself projects and/or the small runs which still required some assembly were absorbed the "big" companies. The incentive to make or take on any new project has been largely quashed by rumors that "MR is making it...." And of course the slapped on limited edition subtitle meant you had to have it or your life would never the be the same. ...that sucked up money, reduced incentive.... streamlined the field.


--RPF moderators are passed the torch from the next guy. If youre on somebodys s-list, good luck with a fair shake. Ive been a long time advocate that the RPF is so huge it effectively trancends a private board and has worked itself into a public setting. This is why I feel moderation there should be more forthcoming with the reasons for their decisions and should allow banned members to reapply after X amount of time. After reading some interesting cases about internet bullying, I cannot help to think that a huge board whos mods unfairly bans someone with a dubious scarlet lettered "BANNED" statement across their name.....could stumble into dangerous territory with regard to charactor defamation, slander, libel etc.

In my case my RPF ephitaph reads that I was banned for supposedly interfering with another member. Oh contraire. I now posess proof that the other member had not only engaged and willingly condoned a long period of charactor and product bashing, attempted collusion with a former moderator to ban me for truthful statements, and most recently engaged in a sealed case of utterly unwarrented libel/slander that cost me and another professional serious remuneration. My mistake perhaps was the bee in my bonnet as an armourer who had gone through many years of literally blood, sweat and tears forging pieces only to have the work I -made- bashed and unfairly compared to a friggin retailer (who doesnt actually make it...a moot comparison when skill is brought up...Id otherwise have no beef with that person, save an obvious attempt to rid me as unwanted competition by misleading fans, members and trying to ruthlessly jockey onward at my expense..... (legal news and updates may follow btw)....but that brings up my next subject

--competition. People complain as to why there are so many arguments and clashes. Two reasons: Ego....and Money and Ego. But eh, dont forget the money. Its the cause for many who defend to the end and support to the sky. And who would fault a man for defending his or his buddies right to make a few hundred bucks a week (thats a bill or your kids Christmas gifts) . Problem is....in defending and plugging ad naseum, many tend to forget that others may be in the same boat. So we wind up with tribal warfare. Mods will probably side with those they know.

--which brings up my next point....most Mods are utterly unqualified for making decisions which affect someones reputuation, or their income.. ....mods of large boards should be elected or their qualifications and decisions more transparent.

Just to prove a point:

....I was officially warned, ie, given an official warning by Rocketeer on the RPF:

for posting...in the OT forum no less... a photo of Bush standing next to a Mongel guy in full 14th century armour. The caption on the thread that read "Bush finds WMDs"----open the thread and find a picture of the two and it read Bush finds weapons of mongel destruction. Cute caption on an otherwise cool (the armour) photo.

Rocketeers explanation... was that I had violated the 'no politics' clause of the rules....I was locked out of that thread and humiliated by Rockeeter for "knowing better".

Yet that week I saw a few OT threads on ghosts, and a full-on thread pet peeves which ranged from religion to politics. ....and I got an official warning for a picture of bush next to a mongel that read bush finds weapons of mongel desctructin. Somehow, someway, in some universe I brought up politics. Go figure.

After I was ultimately banned, a moderator who was friendly with me, proclaimed, "Drew you are a target" .....and left it at that.

I could go on about how I submitted info regarding that particular dealers slander/libel issue which I forwarded to the RPF mods via their email.....and it was never returned....only to learn from my friendly mod that they were never notified. (and yet a corrupt moderator clearly assisted that dealer by alerting them.....but this was not shared with the other mods!!!! It was deleted. As I and others see it, that moderator violated at least several of the RPF TOS/COC agreements, and indirectly involved the RPF in a legal dispute.


The RPF can only be healed if moderators are elected and or it can be shown ahead of time, their aliances and/or relationships with certain high profile members so that, in the case of a dispute they be recused. I aldo guarentee that if enough banned or aliented members signed a petition....and posted that petition on the RPF and online....it would be noticed. Individually we are voiceless to some extent or another...
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