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Design Thread: Nostromo interiors and deck configurations
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Vader
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Floodlights, quite so.

And yes, clearly they've been made the way they have for the cool effect ... but now that they are there, they will need to be rationalised into the design, somehow.

And that, I believe, must begin with defining what, exactly, it is that we actually have, here. For instance, where are they positioned in relation to the hull? Then one can start thinking that since they obviously are retractable ... how do they deploy, and from where?
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Vader
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've figured out what seems to me a plausible explanation for how things (like supplies, or, oh I don't know, unconscious crewmen in spacesuits) can be moved between decks in the obvious absence of elevators:
The way those gangway ladders are designed, it would be simple enough to postulate something basically like a slightly glorified ladder hoist -- a motorised trolley that moves up and down along the companionway, using the ladder as a track, with attachment systems for various cargo, including stretchers.
When not in use, these hoists would be stowed in an overhead compartment at the top end of each ladder.
The openings in the decks are certainly sizeable enough to allow such a system to carry sizeable loads; easily something as large as a space suited human.

Here's an illustration:



In the meanwhile, I've moved these another little notch forward:





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Cold Canuck
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the use of Dr. Bussard's system an established fact or opinion?
I'm curious because in order for it to be an efficient form of propulsion for such a heavy beast (let alone it's cargo), it would have to have been improved on an exponential level.
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Vader
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here's the thing:

The Nostromo has no use for an actual Bussard ram drive. Any kind of Newtonian reaction drive has already been ruled out as a possibility for her realspace propulsion, and the hyperspace propulsion obviously has no use for reaction mass in the first place.

However ... Nostromo has this weird probe thing sticking out at the front:



It has been postulated to be a docking tube, but as you can clearly see, its internal geometry doesn't really support that thesis. And besides, compare the diameter of the tube with the (approximately known) size of the bridge viewport, and you realise the only way to negotiate that tube would be by crawling.
So, I've found myself compelled to dismiss that possibility.

Instead, I've been thinking it mostly looks like a refueling probe of some kind ... but what would a ship such as this refuel from?

The answer, it struck me, is of course space itself.

So I'm postulating, not a full Bussard ram drive (it would be utterly meaningless), but just the scoop portion of it -- a magnetic funnel and collector to gather hydrogen from the interstellar medium the Nostromo travels through in order to supplement the fuel supply for her fusion reactors.

As you can see in the deck plans, the Bussard collector machinery feeds a conduit for the raw hydrogen collected leading to the refinery, which in turn is connected to the deuterium/tritium tanks.


So it's most definitely an "opinion".
But so is everything else on these pages.
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Cold Canuck
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the ladder/lift idea, but wouldn't it make more sense for there to be some sort of service elevator?
Regardless of how reliable a vessel is, things break, and anything of substance is likely to be heavy and cumbersome (based on the idea that idiot-proof = big).
You wouldn't be able to use the lift system you drew here, unless there was a larger multi-level service elevator-version of some kind.
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Vader
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can agree with the basic premise of the argument — however, we can be fairly certain there aren't any elevators in the pressurised areas of the Nostromo simply due to the fact that we never see anyone use one.
If they were there, they would certainly be used, and we would surely have seen someone take one at some point. Yet we never do.

Ergo, they aren't there.

My conclusion is that all major spare parts must to a large extent already be stored on the decks that they pertain to. We see various vehicles of different sizes stored in garages on board; I've postulated earlier that some of these may be for transporting heavier items on board — along the same deck they're stored on.
The forest of chains in the landing gear bays may also be for elevating stuff between the decks that these bays reach to. There may be heavier lift equipment there, as well; out of sight for the camera, for hoisting equipment or vehicles to the ground when landed.
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Starrigger
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vader wrote:
Floodlights, quite so.

And yes, clearly they've been made the way they have for the cool effect ... but now that they are there, they will need to be rationalised into the design, somehow.

And that, I believe, must begin with defining what, exactly, it is that we actually have, here. For instance, where are they positioned in relation to the hull? Then one can start thinking that since they obviously are retractable ... how do they deploy, and from where?


Something like this?


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Cold Canuck
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't say that I agree with your position that if we didn't see a service elevator used, it doesn't exist.
Even based on your own drawings, there are a lot of internal, pressurized rooms and corridors that we don't see but are suggested, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect there to be something more efficient than a rather limited lift system.
Clearly we see crew members drying damp hair, yet we don't see facilities to account for that, either.
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Vader
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starrigger wrote:

Something like this?


Indeed!

Cold Canuk wrote:

Clearly we see crew members drying damp hair, yet we don't see facilities to account for that, either.


I'm afraid I fail to see the relevance...
Drying hair doesn't happen very frequently in the film. Facilities for that may easily be overlooked.
Moving about the ship happens, literally, all the time. If there are assets for that that are more efficient than ladders available, we would surely see them used — yet, all we ever see anybody use are ladders.

Logic would suggest ladders then are all there is. And hair drying ... doesn't really enter into it, as far as I can see.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using a nearby ladder would undoubtedly be faster than waiting for a single service elevator, with the exception of moving Kane, the elevators would be counter-productive.
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Starrigger
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vader wrote:
Well, here's the thing:

The Nostromo has no use for an actual Bussard ram drive. Any kind of Newtonian reaction drive has already been ruled out as a possibility for her realspace propulsion, and the hyperspace propulsion obviously has no use for reaction mass in the first place.

However ... Nostromo has this weird probe thing sticking out at the front:



It has been postulated to be a docking tube, but as you can clearly see, its internal geometry doesn't really support that thesis. And besides, compare the diameter of the tube with the (approximately known) size of the bridge viewport, and you realise the only way to negotiate that tube would be by crawling.
So, I've found myself compelled to dismiss that possibility.



I am open for any ideas about what this thing is supposed to be, but I am not sure why you would summarily dismiss the possibility of it being a docking tube.. I have actually constructed what I believe to be a fairly screen accurate model and the tube winds up being about 9' in diameter.. well beyond a crawlspace.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cold Canuck wrote:
Using a nearby ladder would undoubtedly be faster than waiting for a single service elevator, with the exception of moving Kane, the elevators would be counter-productive.


I think I agree with you on this one Canuck. I worked in a building that had both passenger and freight elevators in it, I would never choose to stand around waiting for the freight elevator. (Was actually against office policy anyway. It was only semi-automatic to operate.) I would either take the stairs, if it was only a few flights either way, or walk across the building (way out of my way) I would imagine that the elevator(s) were probably in the living quarters area. You take the elevator to your work floor and fan out from there.

P.S. During emergencies the elevators were off limits...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can imagine that being a docking tube.

But the idea of that being a hydrogen collector just doesn't make sense. Along with the fact that there is very little free Hydrogen in interstellar space, the collector's size is simply far too small. Assuming that the interstellar hydrogen was being used as a secondary source, it would have to be capable of being replenished quickly, or the occupants of that vessel would expire long before the Nostromo arrived at it's destination.
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Vader
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starrigger wrote:


I am open for any ideas about what this thing is supposed to be, but I am not sure why you would summarily dismiss the possibility of it being a docking tube.. I have actually constructed what I believe to be a fairly screen accurate model and the tube winds up being about 9' in diameter.. well beyond a crawlspace.


Are you sure about those proportions? In your image the person in the tube seems about as tall as those viewports are high. My impression from thinking back to the bridge sets, and to the composite exterior shots from the movie, is that while the viewports undoubtedly are large, they are a fair way from being quite that big.
But perhaps someone has some more absolute reference data?

My main objection however, quite far from being merely summarily dismissal, are the structures inside the funnel. To me, they just don't seem consistent with any kind of a docking mechanism.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cold Canuck wrote:
Along with the fact that there is very little free Hydrogen in interstellar space, the collector's size is simply far too small. Assuming that the interstellar hydrogen was being used as a secondary source, it would have to be capable of being replenished quickly, or the occupants of that vessel would expire long before the Nostromo arrived at it's destination.


I'm sorry, but I get confused. If the amount of hydrogen is small, why is it a problem that the collector aperture is relatively small? Do bear in mind that the actual funnel (force field) of course extends far beyond the ship.

And "...would have to be capable of being replenished quickly, or the occupants of that vessel would expire..." — expire from what, precisely?
The interstellar hydrogen is, as you yourself say, merely a secondary source, i.e. to improve the ship's fuel efficiency, not a vital primary energy source.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the amount of hydrogen is small, why is it a problem that the collector aperture is relatively small?


In order for any collector to be even remotely efficient, it would have to be capable of actually collecting the free hydrogen, but with such a small funnel, the amount of hydrogen collected would be infinitesimal, and would not justify the weight and space used for such collection and use equipment.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the non-existing elevator, there's actually a meta-argument in favour of it, too:

From a film-making perspective, it is a lot easier to have an elevator than to not have one. The sets are infinitely simpler (three walls and a door, vs. a ladder, which needs to be in at least two, possibly three, different levels), and the actual screenplay also gets simpler to write, and to shoot. Any Star Trek screenwriter can testify what an enormous blessing having those turbolifts were — somewhere to place dialogue and illustrate movement between sets without needing to resort to dollies, Stedicams or any other paraphernalia.

If the production of ALIEN went through the substantial hassle of writing, building, and shooting all the Nostromo interior scenes without an elevator, it is a fair safe bet that they didn't envision Nostromo having an elevator.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cold Canuck wrote:
Quote:
If the amount of hydrogen is small, why is it a problem that the collector aperture is relatively small?


In order for any collector to be even remotely efficient, it would have to be capable of actually collecting the free hydrogen, but with such a small funnel, the amount of hydrogen collected would be infinitesimal, and would not justify the weight and space used for such collection and use equipment.


Are we cherry-picking here, just a bit?

You might want to read the next sentence in the paragraph you're quoting.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vader wrote:
Starrigger wrote:


I am open for any ideas about what this thing is supposed to be, but I am not sure why you would summarily dismiss the possibility of it being a docking tube.. I have actually constructed what I believe to be a fairly screen accurate model and the tube winds up being about 9' in diameter.. well beyond a crawlspace.


Are you sure about those proportions? In your image the person in the tube seems about as tall as those viewports are high. My impression from thinking back to the bridge sets, and to the composite exterior shots from the movie, is that while the viewports undoubtedly are large, they are a fair way from being quite that big.
But perhaps someone has some more absolute reference data?

My main objection however, quite far from being merely summarily dismissal, are the structures inside the funnel. To me, they just don't seem consistent with any kind of a docking mechanism.


The Viewports are about 5.5' tall (can't remember what the came to exactly)



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Are we cherry-picking here, just a bit?


I thought we were having a discussion, but if you feel that I am nit-picking, dragging things out or even being deliberately obtuse, just say the word.
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