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panzerrune Community Member
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 92
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject: HeroProp Green LEDs seen ON during Film? |
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I am hard pressed too see where the green LEDs are ON during the film. I see the red LEDs come on at certain moments and as we all know sometimes only some of the red LEDs come on while some are off. Where in the film (for those with ultra keen vision) can the green LEDs be seen turned on?
Admin, if i am posting this question in the wrong forum please relocate it.
Thanks. |
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The Loyalizer Community Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 742 Location: Down in 4th Sector, Chinatown
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
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I don't think they're ever seen on. It could be one of those things where it was intended that they be on, but they couldn't get it to work, or maybe they did get it to work and Ridley decided he didn't like how it looked on film. _________________
"We began to recognize in them a strange obsession..."
http://fcomin.cgsociety.org/gallery/ |
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andy Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 6237 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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The only spot in the film where I think they might have been on is the scene were Deckard drops the gun while climbing the bookshelf in Sebastian's, and when it hits the floor there is a close-up. The green LED in front seems to be illuminated, and though it may just be from reflective light from the set spot lights, it seems to stay "lit" as it passes into shadow.
I think if it is illuminated electronicly, the batteries were probably almost dead at this point, as the red LED's also seem faint. And if they were powered before through an external pack, they wouldn't be able to use that in this scene. Green LED's if I recall, need more power than red ones.
The overall tint of the scene is also pretty green which is why many people thought it was just a drop of water for a long time. So the LED blends in with the surrounding lighting, that would also make it less noticeable. I also read that the film was darkened to make it more "Noir". Many night scenes in films are filmed in regular lighting with "night effect" filters. Now days they do it digitaly.
Another thing to note about this scene is the famous cut white wires are not seen here, Meaning they could be inside the cylinder cover, or covered up with tape, and therefore also in use to power the LED's.
So this is my theory anyway on why I think the LED is lit in this scene.
Andy |
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Mr Webber Community Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 1824 Location: Terra Australis
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Spot on Andy, originally thought it was the scene where Deckard airs out Zhora, but this is the one, have captured several frames to cover light transition. The thing i cant capture well is that both leds are on until it hits the deck, one goes out, as mine does when i drop it
_________________ Formerly offworld66 |
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phase pistol Community Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2006 Posts: 1147
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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If that's the hero blaster prop and it's powered internally, where are the batteries located?
Keep in mind that the year is 1982. |
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andy Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 6237 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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phase pistol wrote: | If that's the hero blaster prop and it's powered internally, where are the batteries located?
Keep in mind that the year is 1982. |
Exactly, they didn't have Lithium Ion batteries back then. Most likely a camera battery like what Coyle uses in his guns, or stack of button cells. Powering 7 LED's, they wouldn't last too many takes, in the rain to boot.
The back LED only seems to be lit with the back-lighting, so it could have been off the whole time. If they were wired Serial the first LED may have drawn the most power and also be brighter. Considering the narrow tube the wires would have to go through this is very likely. Either way it looks like they at least intended to light the green LED's, but cut the wires at some time before the wall scene where we can see our cut wires, and no lit green ones.
Andy |
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Mr Webber Community Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 1824 Location: Terra Australis
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Andy wrote:
Quote: | The back LED only seems to be lit with the back-lighting, so it could have been off the whole time. |
Both lights are definately on when they cut to this shot, the back one starts to fade almost straight away, only lasts about four frames,
shows up clearly on Blu Ray. My capture system isnt that sophisticated
so if someone can get a HD capture it should clinch it.
I know from guessing my way through installing the lights in my sidkit
especially the custom sight rod, that if there is any internal contact, the lights will start blinking. _________________ Formerly offworld66 |
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spinner 44 Community Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2006 Posts: 202 Location: Madrid, Spain
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: |
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According to my POW the green Led are never on in any scene.
In this particular one, which I studied a lot, the light that seems to como from inside the green led is a reflection of the surroding light. The same thin that happed if you light one drop of water laid on a flat surface with a light source coming fronm a side. The water will refract the light making it look as it it was coming from inside the water drop.
The led seems ON when the side of the blaster is lighted, and the off when he gooes in to darkness.
If you know a led there is a small resistance point between two tiny metal plates inside the geen body that causes the led to light. If you look closely, there is no light coming from that particular stop. So again the led is not ON.
Plus the wires are cut, so there is no energy sourde to feed those leds.
Bes regards |
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Mr Webber Community Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 1824 Location: Terra Australis
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: |
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I would think that the screen caps i posted, although not HD, clearly
show the left hand LED on constantly, its brightness is constant through the light transition and that the right hand Led goes out a top of shot.
Also one of the red LEDS is on but very faint. There is a power scource there im sure, the people who work on these things are very creative
and regardless of the average battery size of the day, something was rigged up, albeit not very well,
but thats just my opinion.
Is it true that the intention was to place lights inside the grips?
Maybe this has some solution. _________________ Formerly offworld66 |
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joberg Community Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2008 Posts: 9447
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: |
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I'll go with Spinner 44 on that one. For the entire movie the green LED are not on and for some reason or another someone decides to have a shot of the blaster resting in muck and water with the green LED on?
Very unlikely, I mean the shot is ''dark'' but there must be at least 3 or more big spotlights lighting that shot! Just a reflection people. |
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andy Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 6237 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: |
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spinner 44 wrote: | According to my POW the green Led are never on in any scene.
In this particular one, which I studied a lot, the light that seems to como from inside the green led is a reflection of the surroding light. The same thin that happed if you light one drop of water laid on a flat surface with a light source coming fronm a side. The water will refract the light making it look as it it was coming from inside the water drop.
The led seems ON when the side of the blaster is lighted, and the off when he gooes in to darkness.
If you know a led there is a small resistance point between two tiny metal plates inside the geen body that causes the led to light. If you look closely, there is no light coming from that particular stop. So again the led is not ON.
Plus the wires are cut, so there is no energy sourde to feed those leds.
Bes regards |
I have studied it too and still have yet to come into a full conclusion, but to respond to some of your points...
If the LED was lit by an outside source would it not vary in brightness? It does not even with lighting does.
The wires are not even visible at all, which either means they are not there or are covered up because they were being used at this point. either way I am pretty sure they have not been "cut" yet. in any matter the fact that there are wires there shows intent to power them.
Older LED's like the ones on the hero seem much more frosted than newer ones. That would both diffuse any inside light and also reflect out any outside light, diminishing the effect of the outside illumination.
Andy |
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Mr Webber Community Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 1824 Location: Terra Australis
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Try watching it on a blu ray with zoom function, its really quite obvious. _________________ Formerly offworld66 |
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maxwell
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 9
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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This is how I see it:
I imagine the idea was to have fully working, shinning green lights. Why else would they have the green plastic ends on the prop? For whatever reasons it never really worked and thus the only image we have with any evidence they might have intended for them to work is the image referenced here. It´s plausable that they were on but without enough juice to really make them stand out. If they were as visible as the red side lights during the film, then that would be another matter.
Since they dont appear on in any other scene, and aren´t part of my recollections of the fim and the blaster in particular, I personally discard the fact they might have been on. |
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spinner 44 Community Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2006 Posts: 202 Location: Madrid, Spain
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Andy, I'll double check the scene in the new hi-res formats. I'll try to get you clear frames to support my points.
All the best. |
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PlanetLII Community Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 11
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: |
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I have a question for you all.........
Why was the decision made to make the green LED's work on subsequent models (Coyle/Sidkit) produced only after the Worldcon version was found?
Am I right in thinking that they didn't work on the prop?
And did the red LED's work anymore?
I am just curious as to why the replica makers decided to make them work, if it still was not obvious that they did in fact light up.
Also, does anyone think it is intentional that the two rear red LED's are brighter than the front two?
For what it is worth, and I am no expert and although I don't have an HD version of the film, I thought that they appreared to be on in the scene where the gun is dropped. _________________ Look out at the shattered weeping millions,
Destroyers of you own civilizations,
Species slowly disappear,
For the canyons of the new concrete frontier. |
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The Loyalizer Community Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 742 Location: Down in 4th Sector, Chinatown
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: |
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I think the decision to make the green LEDs work on the part of the replica makers is that they were intended to be working on the hero prop, and the intent is to reproduce the hero prop with all working components.
Unless the wiring was critically damaged during filming, there's no reason to believe that the LEDs wouldn't work if a fresh battery was installed in the hero. No way to be sure if the green LEDs ever worked or not at this time.
As for the rear LEDs being brighter, i think that's something to do with the way they were wired and drawing power. Something to do with the ones first in sequence getting more power than the others. _________________
"We began to recognize in them a strange obsession..."
http://fcomin.cgsociety.org/gallery/ |
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jfuste Community Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 739 Location: Barcelona, Spain
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temponaut Community Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 440 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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PlanetLII wrote: | Why was the decision made to make the green LED's work on subsequent models (Coyle/Sidkit) produced only after the Worldcon version was found? |
My recollection, from the flurry of posts that followed the online debut of phase pistol's WorldCon photos, is that the photos made obvious for the first time the white wires on the exterior of the left cylinder cover. The wires are actually visible in some screenshots, but no one had really recognized them before the WorldCon photos appeared. Then it was, "Of course! The wires are right there! Why didn't we see them before?!"
Those white wires seemed to many to indicate that the LEDs in the jeweler's screwdriver were powered. Some believed that the wires, which seemed incongruous with the rest of the Blaster, may have been jury-rigged under time pressure in order to light the laser sight when the (hypothetical) internal wiring failed.
In any case, as far as I recall, those wires got a lot of people thinking the laser sight lit up, or at least was meant to light up. And that seems to have inspired the replicas with working green LEDs following the appearance of the WorldCon Blaster.
Andy, who has done extensive research into the history of the Blaster and its replicas, can probably provide more (and more accurate) details. _________________ "Your old titles mean nothing here... Captain!" |
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andy Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 6237 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: |
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The green LEDs themselves were questionable and controversial before the worldcon pictures. The front LED was the only one most people could agree upon, and the rear one I think only one or two people fought for. Karl's pics put a lot of arguments to rest. Before this the only thing we had to work with was the very dark Directors Cut DVD.
Andy |
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phase pistol Community Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2006 Posts: 1147
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Now see, to ME, it looks like front green LED is ON. THe bulb is fully saturated (compare with the rear one which you can barely see; that one is probably off0.
Compare with the red LEDs below. One is on, you can see it. The other is on but barely; you can hardly see it.
I would contend that if those green LEDs were off, you wouldn't see them as clearly.
-k |
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