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jameth
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject: Real Blade Runner Gun Reply with quote

Has anyone tried to build a real Blade Runner gun??

A gun that looks like the prop but is still a functioning revolver???
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andy
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Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several have here. Do a search for Doc3D and Craig Kovach (not a member), just to name a couple.

Andy
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Gaff87
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may have this wrong but wasnt Adam Savage also making one with real parts?

Not sure about it firing though.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OR you can order on of my models and swap out the cast Bulldog and replace it with a real Bulldog, the only problem will be having a custom 4.5 inch barrel made.

It will fit.

Rich
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andy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Adam is making one using a real bulldog, but last I talked with him he is using Steyr parts made by Rich as he just said.

You would need an authorized gunsmith to cut down a barrel blank to fit if you ever want to actually fire it. Also you would need a way to keep the cylinder compartment from blowing apart too. Check out Doc's thread and work for more on this.

Andy
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racprops
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder about the vented gases leaking between the cylinder and the barrel and if they are enough to cause any problem with the side covers.

I will just have to build one soon and find out.

Andy who is Doc?


Rich
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andy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of Doc's threads...
http://propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=1222&start=0

http://propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=1206&highlight=doc3d

http://propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=1226&start=0

And it was Doc that used Rich's Steyr parts. Adam may have used some too IIRC, bot not sure if he used the entire Steyr reciever or not. Doc used pretty much everything except the Bulldog from Rich.

Andy
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joberg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah...Doc's gun is a firing beauty Cool
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eltee
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Joined: 31 Oct 2006
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Location: West Coast USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

racprops wrote:
OR you can order on of my models and swap out the cast Bulldog and replace it with a real Bulldog, the only problem will be having a custom 4.5 inch barrel made.

It will fit.

Rich


However, IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED that you actually fire any such device until you have it inspected and tested by a competent gunsmith. Home made / home modified firearms can result in serious injury or death if fired. PLEASE USE EXTREME CAUTION. In fact, I would recommend to the Propsummit dot com webmaster and to my friend RICH that any advice, instructions, etc. relating to what amounts to building a gun be done offline.

That said, YES, people have put together blasters with a real Bulldog, a real Steyr, or both. The issue of the side plates being exposed to overpressure during firing, even from light load blanks, is a genuine concern. If you've ever accidentally had your hand alongside the cylinder gap when firing or looked at photos taken in subdued lighting you can clearly understand the amount of heat, gas and pressure that escapes there.

There are also legalities involved since you are using a real gun. In California, for example, if you leave a gun unsecured you may face criminal penalties so openly displaying your blaster in the same manner as a non-firing replica may pose some practical problems.

Removing the Bulldog barrel, turning down and threading barrel stock and refitting the new barrel to the gun is not for amateurs.

However, it is a cool idea and having a functioning revolver that works under a Coyle shell would be an incredible piece. Firing it is something else. Yes, Coyle's blaster should wrap around a real Bulldog quite nicely seeing as how he used a Bulldog as his master but remember, too, that the rest of the gun is made of soft, low temp metals (pewter like) and not designed to withstand recoil. Threads in soft metal may strip, areas of stress may fracture or fail, etc. It may not simply be a matter of buying a Bulldog and dropping it in place in lieu of the replica Bulldog.

I'd LOVE to see a bunch of you build up a Coyle around a Bullldog, but please think about safety, engineering challenges, legalities, liability, etc. I may do one with a disabled Bulldog so that it cannot fire live rounds, only short blanks (cylinder will not fit a full sized regular round) or maybe not fire at all (removing pin). Maybe have a spare cylinder modified to not take full sized rounds but keep the original cylinder intact so I CAN eventually make it into a shooter once all the engineering issues are solved.

Not meaning to be a wet blanket, but I don't want to see anyone hurt and then having their lawyers go after the website and Rich for encouraging and instructing them on how to build a shooter. Even if the instructions are sound and safe, and even if the builder did everything wrong and against advice, the lawyers will still try to go after people involved in this.

Sorry if I'm coming off badly with this post, but I've been a cop and a licensed gun dealer for over a quarter of a century so I've seen good ideas turn into big lawsuits many times. Sad

Maybe instead of a how TO thread, a how I DID IT thread so that it doesn't appear that instructions are being given by the poster and sanctioned by the forum. Rather, someone is doing a "show off" thread on how they built up their replica.

Just my two cents on the matter.
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jameth
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll stick with my Glock for real firing. Thanks for all the info
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andy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank's Eltee.

I certainly did not make my warning strong or complete enough. We will also not allow any construction thread on this topic without a stern warning throughout. Even show off threads should have warnings so nobody thinks it is no big deal to do. It also should be known that in almost all cases, modification to a gun can only done by a licensed gunsmith. It would be against the law to make one of these without the close supervision of a gunsmith.

Andy
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propsjonnyb
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Joined: 16 Jul 2009
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Location: Helmdon, Northamptonshire UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally endorse and second Eltee's and Andy's statements, and Yes I know I have a vested interest, as I make and sell a Plug Fire Cap conversion kit which has a specially made barrel for forward venting - even with the PFC - venting slots are needed in the barrel shrouds and care must be taken when firing, as you could still potentially hurt yourself or someone else , as the expanding gasses are hot and will burn you if you are not careful,
as anyone here who has used a PFC before will tell you , you'll do it once and never again !
I have done a number of conversions to date and can say
Sidkits are the worst to convert, as the alloy is of poor quality and does melt at a very low temperature, I have done two so far and have had to replace parts , Coyles are better ( again, I delcair an interest) and now with Rich doing zinc alloy parts, a replica 'theatrical firing' prop is possible ( I make the distinction of a'theatrical firing' prop as it just looks like a'real' gun firing , but isn't and could never ever be made to fire 'live' ammunition !)

If you want a legal 'firing' blaster then PFC technology is the way to go , as it provides a realistic legal way of reproducing what you see on film , having said that you MUST treat the gun as if it were real thereafter , as you now have, what would appear to the public and police as a 'real' weapon, so all the standard safeguards - Must Do's and Don't completely and 100% APPLY !! -- Keep Safe !
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andy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if anyone has tried PFC shells in a real revolver? Theoretically it should work.

Andy
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racprops
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They would have to 44 cartridges and center fired.

Rich
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propsjonnyb
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately as far as I know , no company currently makes a .44 cal PFC shell cartridge at the present time , there were guns produced over the years that take a .44 but as anyone knows PFC carts are normally manufactured for specific gun types and in small runs 500 to a 1000 guns being the norm and normally cartridges do not work in other guns of a different manufacturer, even with the same calibre and dimensions , Maurishin and MGC for example , there are always subtle differences . I could quote others , but when you buy a gun you get the specifc number of firing carts included and the opportunity to buy a small number of additional 'firing' carts . As manufacturer's discontinue and change replica guns to meet market trends and competition , this problem will just continue .
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eltee
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine some sleeves can be machined to allow use of .38 cal blanks, etc. in a .44 cylinder.
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andy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention the strength of a firing pin and hammer on a real revolver would probably permanently wreck a PFC Cartridge. I am willing to bet some one has tried it before though.

Andy
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racprops
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not looked into this so far, but I can buy the 44 brass all day long...

What about blanks or making our own pryo loads??

I figured on getting a batch loaded with low pressure wad cutters rounds, just enought powder to shoot fairly well on a gun range.

Also I now have a Zinc Caster, so could have a special run of side covers done in zinc.

Lastly as we are getting custom barrels, wouldn't it lower the blowby if we had the barrel custom fitted for a tighter fit or less gap between the barrel and the cylinder??

Rich
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propsjonnyb
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To make a custom fire PFC cartridge , the tollerances must be exact , and the three brass pieces that make up the firing cart must be machined to fit together perfectly - I have had my own custom caps made to fit the .38 carts that go in my conversion kit , to keep the gun PFC legal, the barrel must be permanently attached & blocked with a special vent that allows the gasses to vent forward , and the compression mix used in the firing charge must not exceed the minimum set for a standard PFC charge - so my recommendation if this is going to be progressed , is to use a standard manufacturers cap at .7mm ( Maurishin) and then craft the firing cart to fit the barrel drum chamber at .44 cal . This then keeps the gun completely legal and within current legistation requirements.
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eltee
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reloading real or blank ammo is a precise science...although many home reloaders do it successfully. Making ammo commercially requires licensing. Here is a company that advertises blank .44 ammo. Pretty pricey (buck a round) but a bulk purchase might be negotiated.

http://www.gunblanks.com/ammo.html

I am willing to use my FFL license to approach them for dealer pricing if there is enough bonafide commitment from folks.

For the PFC blanks, I think that might end up as safest. Reducing hammer pressure should be easy enough, and turning some sleeves for smaller caliber ammo is no big deal.
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