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amish
Community Guide
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1433
Location: Outside Philadelphia
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 Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| phase pistol wrote: |
I would ask, what has changed? How has he demonstrated a new commitment to "playing nice"? Did I miss something?
Karl |
Karl,
As others have already mentioned, Rich's ban was never to be permanent. It has been over a year since he was banned. I have not spoken to Rich except for maybe once or twice right after he was banned.
I cannot say he is a different person, I cannot say he will even entertain coming back here. I just felt that since it was not a permanent ban that it was only right to consider bringing him back.
After some discussion with the other Community Guides it was decided that a poll would work best. While we could have made the decision ourselves, it did not feel fair to the membership here that actually makes propsummit what it is. While we will move posts and split threads, the community here drives propsummit. We simply act as a guide from time to time.
Anyway, it felt right to let the community decide if he should come back and decided a vote worked well. If it was up to us, we would have voted as well and I honestly do not know which way the vote would have went just as I do not know which way it may go now.
All I can say is that I am very proud to be a member at propsummit. It is a fantastic community full of passionate people that actually get along. We may have a bump in the road every now and then, but that is just part of being an open community.
Sorry for the long drawn out answer 
Tom
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www.bladerunnerprops.com |
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darkknight0667
Community Guide
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 799
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Fangorn81 wrote: | I also know nothing of the details surrounding the banning of the four others more recently, but I do know that two of them have been members for 2 years and one appears to have been heavily involved in creating one of the best replicas of Deckard's trench coat I have seen.
We may not all like each other and perhaps would not even be friends in the real world, but we all love Blade Runner, and if someone is adding to the hobby, I think we should take care before we wall them out.
Of course, I am not advocating tolerating childish, hateful, or otherwise offensive behavior. But I have seen more than one small forum turn into a ghost town because of petty things. I just want to make sure we are all clear headed. Which, from what I have seen in the comments seems to be the case, I just thought I'd add my 2 cents. |
The banning of those four accounts wasn't done because of a dislike for anyone. That's not how we roll around here (as I'm sure you've noticed). The problem with them is that they all posted messages from the same IP address on numerous occasions. This is something that could only occur if they were all sharing the same computer or router. If the owners of these accounts come forward and explain to Tom how this happened, then they'll be reactivated. As it looks right now, they're likely to be spare/sock-puppet accounts for a single individual, kept to stir up trouble while keeping his/her original account "clean" or to get around (or to help someone else get around) a ban or maybe just to skew discussions their own way by making it appear that more people support his/her side. Whatever the reason, it's not allowed.
It would be a shame to lose members involved in a major project like the in which these accounts seem to have been instrumental, but if (as it looks) they're really all the same person, then they haven't been playing by the rules and therefore asked for what happened.
Oh, and just to be clear, Fangorn, the Deckard trench was made by Rachel, Paul's girlfriend. Her account was NOT one of the ones which was banned (check the list in the banned account thread). Only Paul (Oncebitten) and his spare/sockpuppets were banned.
edited to clarify a point. dk0667
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Pete
Last edited by darkknight0667 on Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bwood
Community Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't have a dog in this fight because I arrived here long after the Coyle banning happened. However, given what we know now because of the hero blaster popping up at Worldcon, how much more could he add at this point that would be relevant? If the answer is, 'not that much,' then why should it matter to anyone if he doesn't return? |
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ironfist
Community Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 310
Location: East Hartford,CT
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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You do bring up a good point. Rich is a one trick pony for this board. Now that everything is known about the gun that he was reproducing, what insite would he now bring to the board?
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The other Karl! |
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andy
Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6237
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Rich is no one trick pony, but his best work may be behind him. On the other hand he also seems to finally have decided to just work on his stuff instead of wasting time going after windmills. I think his time off this board may have helped him with that, and that is one of the reasons we did it with him in the first place.
At the same time I am sure he feels betrayed by us, and especially me for seemingly siding with Siderio. I realized that trying to portray a neutral diplomat may have made both sides see me as siding with the other. There is a very good chance that as a result Rich will not come back here ever, especially since he can sell his guns for so much more on Ebay now.
I am sure if we never brought this up again the board would have stayed much more harmonious in the meantime, but it still to me would have been a skeleton in our closet that we would have become increasingly more resistant to talking about. Hopefully by letting this process happen it will help us all exorcise some of our demons and be able to move forward as a community.
Andy |
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ironfist
Community Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 310
Location: East Hartford,CT
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Im sorry, I was under the impression he only did the Blade Runner blaster and no Alien props? This is what I ment with the term one trick pony.
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andy
Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6237
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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His expertise is Star Trek props. He also does the Leon Cop pistol. He has done alien stuff in the past too, but the Blade Runner Deckard blaster is the prop that made him famous. Still he has had his hand on many other props as well.
Andy |
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QuasiOdo
Community Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Must chime in: One trick pony?
Let's see- he's done numerous incarnations of the classic phaser, Trek III phaser, classic BSG blaster, Trek III & V trics, classic comm, Trek III & v comms, LIS laser, the Nautilus for Disney, Klingon tric & various weapons,
and a WHOLE lot more I can't think of right now over MANY years.
Basically, check his site.
PS- BR is my favorite movie. I wish I had more time to hang out at this site, which I'm happy to be a member of. I hate to see someone who has put in all the time and effort into a project as I know Rich has end up in this situation. I think he deserves- at minimum- a break. |
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SLK
Community Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| QuasiOdo wrote: | Must chime in: One trick pony?
Let's see- he's done numerous incarnations of the classic phaser, Trek III phaser, classic BSG blaster, Trek III & V trics, classic comm, Trek III & v comms, LIS laser, the Nautilus for Disney, Klingon tric & various weapons,
and a WHOLE lot more I can't think of right now over MANY years.
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Can you name which of these are his own sculpts as opposed to studio castings that he has tweeked? Which of these were made by or with the help of other artists? The statement perpetuates the myth that he has done something awesome all on his own.
Lets examine your list of his products.
1. classic phaser - Richards sculpt I think.
2. Trek III phaser- not his sculpt.
3. classic BSG blaster - not his sculpt but he cleaned a casting up.
4. Trek III & V trics - Again, not the original sculptor.
5. classic comm - Uncertain. Center plates were made by Jim Kirks tooling for some, possibly all.
6. Trek III & v comms- not his sculpt.
7. LIS laser- anyone who knows the history on the 1st season gun knows how large a portion came off a toy. He used detail parts I made back around 1989 and I never got credit for the unlicensed version. Over time and with upgrades many of the parts I made got traded out. For the official gun I drew up files for the gold sights and a friend at some place where I used to work laser cut the parts. I assembled the parts so they could be molded. According to RAC my ONLY involvement was to refer him to the laser cutter. I guess the files magically drew and assembled themselves. There is more to the story but that is for another time.
8. the Nautilus for Disney - he didn't make the master pattern.
9. Klingon tric - not his sculpt.
The Leon pistol isn't his sculpt either.
Granted he came up with some interesting solutions for installing electronics or pop ups for tricorders which took some work.
| andy wrote: | | I know a lot of people that had issues with Rich mostly because he seemed to have an iconic and sacred status and was treated as a holy man. |
Yes, Richard has been doing this a long time. He has produced a variety of studio casts.
I suppose it's all up to the individual on how much credit they would like to assign him for the casting of these props that he did not fabricate.
Yes he makes neat stuff that people want and perhaps that why some people want to see him as important as they do.
Last edited by SLK on Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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andy
Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6237
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Very true, but those who have not been collecting prop replicas for years may also no know what the early garage kits were ALL like before Rich came in and tricked them out. Most of them were simple resin with no working parts and rarely any electronics. He would put in sounds and functions to all his stuff so they were more than just static models. He raised the bar for all the model makers from the 80's on. The C&S BR Blaster also was astounding for it's time, by being cast from all original parts and fully functional. Unfortunately the bar has been picked up by others since and he has had a hard time clearing it.
Andy |
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SLK
Community Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| andy wrote: | Very true, but those who have not been collecting prop replicas for years may also no know what the early garage kits were ALL like before Rich came in and tricked them out. Most of them were simple resin with no working parts and rarely any electronics. He would put in sounds and functions to all his stuff so they were more than just static models. He raised the bar for all the model makers from the 80's on. The C&S BR Blaster also was astounding for it's time, by being cast from all original parts and fully functional. Unfortunately the bar has been picked up by others since and he has had a hard time clearing it.
Andy |
Well, like I said...
| SLK wrote: | | Granted he came up with some interesting solutions for installing electronics or pop ups for tricorders which took some work. |
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andy
Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6237
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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He is certainly more of a mechanic than a sculptor, or even a painter.
Andy |
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SLK
Community Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| andy wrote: | | He is certainly more of a mechanic than a sculptor, or even a painter. |
Remember...I used to work with him.
Don't eeeeeeeeeeven get me started on the painting  
At least I can laugh about it now. |
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Masao
Community Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 143
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:10 am Post subject: |
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OK, let me get this straight:
Rich was banned for some unspecified reason for an unspecified time.
Now you are trying to decide ifhe should be allowed to return?
Very odd. Under those conditions; deciding when would be appropriate, not if.
This is a site primarily oriented to Blade Runner props. Richard was seminal in several of the replicas made including the Sid kit and Chief Special. You would not have those available to you if he had not done what he has done.
Calling him a "one trick pony" or that somehow his value is lessened over time cannot diminish what he has accomplished for you. He is part of your collecting experience and history as BR fans.
Just answer this: How many actual Hollywood propmakers care what you think? How many have contributed to your collection? How many would even be willing to discuss your fandom with you? You want to keep the only one you have available banned??
Think about it.
Last edited by Masao on Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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clutch
Community Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| He also did the flamer pistol from Logan's Run |
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darkknight0667
Community Guide
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 799
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| Masao wrote: | OK, let me get this straight:
Rich was banned for some unspecified reason for an unspecified time.
Now you are trying to decide ifhe should be allowed to return?
Very odd. Under those conditions; deciding when would be appropriate, not if.
This is a site primarily oriented to Blade Runner props. Richard was seminal in several of the replicas made including the Sid kit and Chief Special. You would not have those available to you if he had not done what he has done.
Calling him a "one trick pony" or that somehow his value is lessened over time cannot diminish what he has accomplished for you. He is part of your collecting experience and history as BR fans.
Just answer this: How many actual Hollywood propmakers care what you think? How many have contributed to your collection? How many would even be willing to discuss your fandom with you? You want to keep the only one you have available banned??
Think about it. |
Make no mistake, Rich was banned for very specific reasons. He became an unruly loud-mouth who took it upon himself to do nothing but crap all over every thread he could find. After numerous warnings to keep his rants in The Pit, where they belonged, the staff was getting fed up with cleaning up after him. Then, during one of his rants (again, not in The Pit) he spouted some rather racially offensive remarks and was banned.
The reason that we're asking if the membership wants him back is because the staff cannot come to a consensus as to whether or not we want to deal with his nonsense again. Has he shown anywhere that he's changed his stripes? Will he behave and post things where they're supposed to go? Some of us want to give him another chance, while others feel that the place is fine without him. So, we're asking the community how they feel (because we're just stewards here to serve the membership). If you all want him back, we're willing to give him another chance (one more chance). However, if you all would prefer that he not return, then we're fine with that, too.
As for his credentials, to me at least, they don't count for a hill of beans. Just because the high and mighty "Hollywood Prop Maker" deigns to slum it with the common fans doesn't give them any special privileges to act like an unruly child. If Stan Winston signed on as a member and proceeded to act the way that Rich did, we'd bounce him to the curb just as fast and I'd debate whether I'd want to deal with his nonsense again, too.
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Pete |
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Bwood
Community Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Masao, are you inferring that Coyle had some involvement in the creation of the Hartford Chiefs Special? Please explain.
Since Mr. Coyle is getting such a handsome price for his blaster ($1600+) on Ebay, and he has apparently not expressed any desire whatsoever to return to Propsummit, at this point I would say we really don't need each other, so maybe we should let sleeping dogs lie ...... |
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SLK
Community Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Masao,
Are you still working in RACs shop? |
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andy
Community Guide
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6237
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:34 am Post subject: |
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I would correct slightly what Darkknight said, that Rich made xenophobic remarks rather than racist, but those can be pretty close on a board filled with people from around the world.
Andy |
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oldzey
Community Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 569
Location: Peoria, Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Well, as long as we are giving Rich the "This is your life" treatment regarding his professional accomplishments, we should let him at least have a voice.
http://racprops.com/issue7/this_is_your_life/ |
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