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joberg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that white helmet is used to ride on a motorcycle...I think it's the kind test pilots used in the '60s (USAF most probably).
1st clue: large round leather piece at the front.
2nd clue: protruding bulbous plastic piece at ear level. Wink
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andy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that is probably where they are from. Maybe they were meant to be spinner pilots. They do invoke the CHIPs helmets to a degree though. Love the Eagle badge on them too. From looking at them more they look very much like the helocopter Pilot helmets with the visor cover removed and an additional Jaw, Chin cover attached.

Andy
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nexus42
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:51 am    Post subject: clue on replica cop outfit Reply with quote

Those white helmets worn by the cops in the station precinct are WW2 T8'S, more commonly known as M5 flak or flyer helmets.
These M5s, were introduced into service towards the end of the war, febuary to august 1945, to replace the M3 and M4A2. Over 93 000 of these were manufactured for USAAF bomber crews.
The M5 helmet design derived from the original general issue M1 "steel pot" which aircrew started to wear unofficially at the start of the war to protect them from the dangers of flak and ricochets within the aircraft. The helmet wasn't ideal so many were modified by the crews themselves, cutting gaps for the headphones and adding crude side plates. Eventually the USAAF started to provide the crews with an official new helmet based on the modified M1, designated the M3 (T2) flak helmet 1943- 1944 the M4A2, towards the later part of 44, and then finally the M5 in service in europe and the Pacific till the end of hostilities.
The look of the M5 with its distinct teardrop side plates and futuristic shape its not at all surprising Ridley used it in Blade Runner for the precinct (bike) cops.

m5_front__side_view


Last edited by nexus42 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:14 am; edited 2 times in total
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andy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't able to fix your photo. Check your url again for it. I looked for the helmet you mentioned though, and it looks very likely to be the source helmet. Nice find.

Andy
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW. Some new to me photos in this thread. Cool. This might be the first time I've seen a clear shot of gaff's shoes for crying out loud. Smile

The amount of details and variation in these costumes for the extras is stunning. I never stop being impressed with this film.

Or, mind you, with my fellows fanatics who diligently research the work put into the film. Nick especially could teach a master class on the props and costumes and set design.
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joberg
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's the M-5 helmet but rather look like a P-1A flying helmet stripped of it's hardware. The M-5 is metal and amovible ear-muffs, while the P-1A is in one piece and is from the late '50s early '60s...then again, that's the closest design out-there, I'm sure someone will chime in with the right info.
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nickdaring
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That m-5 looks pretty close.








M78-62-s by Eggs and Sausage, on Flickr






Wow we're trying to figure out some pretty obscure stuff here. Ha ha!

Three photos of a character that doesn't even appear in the movie. Smile

Nick


Last edited by nickdaring on Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:29 pm; edited 3 times in total
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joberg
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might be right after all, I also googled (for more than 3 hours Wink ) flight helmet (Russian, English, American, German) but in my search I also discovered pics of Tank Helmet...very close to the one in that BR scene.
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Mr Webber
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing work guys, i was thinking it was some old bike helmet with some
scratch bits on the side but its great that its a found item.
It does look like they have stuck an old bell visor on it and trimmed it back a little. I love the idea of it being a spinner, CHP style arrangment.
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Gaff87
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great photos Nick.
Yes, it certainly does look like a US WWII flak helmet.

Here's a picture I found on a WWII forum.
Showing M3 & M5 helmets...

(They wear them for a short time in Memphis Belle)




Neil
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, did the production bolt on a visor through a steel pot? That had to be crazy difficult.

Too bad we didn't get to see more of the cops on screen. The work they did on those extras was pretty damn cool.
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Mr Webber
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used velcro to secure the bell visor to the Soylent Green helmet, just one of the many different methods available.

These guys are wearing specialized jackets with exagerated padding on the shoulders and the jackets have a biker cut look to them, maybe
they werent spinner helmets at all but Bike Cops.
Is it possible there were specific designs for these and they never made production or wishfull thinking, there are pics somewhere of said machine.
Is anyone aware of any motorcycle designs by Syd Mead?
Another juicy puzzle.


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joberg
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, obviously the costume dept. made an effort on these police uniforms (since there's a few hero shots of these guys in the movie)...not to derail this thread, but did you notice that the "mini-jail" in the market scene (a prisonner guarded by a cop) is the bed, re-dressed and re-painted, in the hospital scene? Yes, so back to those uniforms and the fact that there's a few variations seen on screen...but I never spotted any motorcycle or the design of one in the pre-production stuff.
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nexus42
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: clue on replica cop outfit Reply with quote

nexus42 wrote:
Those white helmets worn by the cops in the station precinct are WW2 T8'S, more commonly known as M5 flak or flyer helmets.
These M5s, were introduced into service towards the end of the war, febuary to august 1945, to replace the M3 and M4A2. Over 93 000 of these were manufactured for USAAF bomber crews.
The M5 helmet design derived from the original general issue M1 "steel pot" which aircrew started to wear unofficially at the start of the war to protect them from the dangers of flak and ricochets within the aircraft. The helmet wasn't ideal so many were modified by the crews themselves, cutting gaps for the headphones and adding crude side plates. Eventually the USAAF started to provide the crews with an official new helmet based on the modified M1, designated the M3 (T2) flak helmet 1943- 1944 the M4A2, towards the later part of 44, and then finally the M5 in service in europe and the Pacific till the end of hostilities.
The look of the M5 with its distinct teardrop side plates and futuristic shape its not at all surprising Ridley used it in Blade Runner for the precinct (bike) cops.


m5_front__side_




Thanks for displaying the photo's Nick, that second one down showing the front, side and interior harness was one of a set of photos I tried to upload above, but to no avail???

I have loved the style of this cop helmet for a good few years, more so than the standard police hats worn on screen, very medieval looking? but never saw any decent reference material about it or its origin. It's only fleetingly seen in the movie, RS's tapestry of background detail, very frustrating!

I'd been curious about these helmets, so searched through countless books and websites on military headgear and aviation equipment from the later part of the 20th century, the P-1A, looks similar from a distance, but when seen close the shape is wrong, and it's a one piece construction, unlike the M5 helmet.

The M5 flyer or T8 to give it its original AAF designation has that unmistakable profile front and side, with it's shield shaped chin tapering side plates, and pronounced earphone bulges for use with the ANH-15 flight helmet. The distinctive hinges visible at the top of the ear plates, and the curvature of the front and back brim........ TOS era Romulan centurions come to mind.

The majority of the 93 000 M5s produced were made from Hadfield manganese steel, but helmets were also manufactured from a resin impregnated glass fibre laminate known as Doron, phenolic resins and the relatively new nylon (1935) which had been employed successfully in flak vests for aircrew and was used with aluminium as a composite helmet model to create a lighter version than the standard M5 weight of 2 pound 12 ounces.

These particular helmets look like they've been simply painted and a standard motorcycle peak fitted above the curved brim, along with the police badge, Simple and effective.
Although the cops helmets could have been made in a mold from a original M5, but it would seem a lot of unnecessary work, easier to use the real thing?

Variations of the M5 flyer exist due to the constant tinkering and unit upgrades made by individuals and crews, but the hinge, the earflaps and the tapered front profile, wide at top narrowing to a point at the base give away this particularly unique helmet worn by these Spinner/motorbike cops?
I'd bet my grannies teeth on it......

.......Neil great photo, I have that one, your right the guys in the photo are holding M3 T2 flak helmets, derived from the M1 G.I. with gaps cut out for the earphones and hinged rounded ear plates, but the RAF guy on the back row with the Mae West life preserver has a M4A2 helmet under his arm covered in a olive green canvas cover they actually look a lot like modern marine corp F-16 pilot helmets. And they are quite distinctly different to the tapered M5 shape.


Cheers...
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Gaff87
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome info Nexus.
I'll see if I can take some screencaps from Memphis Belle later, I'm pretty sure they're in there somewhere.
It wont be of any help really but thought I'd share them anyway.

Neil
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andy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that these are made from the M5 helmet, and they are supposed to be motorcycle police. There was a scene never filmed in the scripts where Deckard was stuck in traffic coming back into the city, and some police get him out to meet up with a spinner to take him into Bryant's office. Meanwhile his car continues on without him preprogrammed.
The gloss in the helmet means they did a lot of work on those, unless there is another variation on the helmet that was more finished.

Andy
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joberg
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a screen cap of the 3rd street tunnel in L.A. scene when Deck is going to his apt...there's a Spinner and a few cop on foot or it's just my imagination; maybe a motorcycle.
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nexus42
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: clue on replica cop outfit Reply with quote

Your welcome Neil......those helmets have always been a favourite of mine, 100% certain these are M5,s, my grannies teeth are depending on it?

I haven't watched Memphis Belle in a while an old favourite of mine, hope to see your screen grabs!.....I'm not certain but I think the movie takes place around summer 43? if so the M3 helmet came into service dec 43, and the M5 in feb 45, before that crews tended to wear whatever they could get their hands on, mainly a M1, steelpot.
According to the real Belles captain Robert Morgan, the crew only flew 21 of the 25 missions, and the last mission portrayed in the movie was flown with a different crew over Kiel and not Bremmen, but when has the truth ever stopped hollywood? still love the movie?

Cheers
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Gaff87
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I think it is in '43.
The ear flaps look to be a completely different shape Sad

Here are the caps.



Neil
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nexus42
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:28 pm    Post subject: clue on replica cop outfit Reply with quote

Cheers Neil......nice screen grabs. That is a M3 (T2) basically a standard issue M1 infantry helmet, worn without the liner and with gaps cut out for headphones. The plates on this helmet are more clam shaped and shorter at the sides.
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