Question regarding story

[steevy]

In the book the 4 year lifespan wasn't intentional,it was a technical problem.They were unable to keep cells reproducing.

[Vader]

True. On the other hand, in the movie it is clearly an intentional design feature.
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[The Loyalizer]

I think Tyrell's statement "Commerce is our goal here at Tyrell, 'More Human Than Human' is our motto." Has a lot of impact. Clearly it suggests that the off world consumer market wants a more human replicant. The authorities do not. Simply because the authorities understand that the harder it is to detect one, the more problems they will have in an escape situation. Tyrell Corp's view is the opposite; the less human their product is, the less people will want it, and sure some might kill their owners, but that's a small percentage. Kind of like the iPhone 4, sure some people couldn't make a call with it, but most could. Hardly grounds for a recall. Although in fairness, your iPhone is less likely to dangle you off a building and ask you if you understand what it means to be a slave.

I don't think Tyrell developed the VK test. If they had, it would've probably have been part of their quality control process before releasing a new model, and any model that couldn't be detected would be scrapped, or sold to some shady operation for deniability. In the book, it was the Voight Scale test, later altered by Kampff, which if I recall were psychologists studying human and android empathy levels.

I've always seen the two as being separate. Tyrell makes them, VK sniffs them out. Kind of like Smith & Wesson makes the guns, Dupont makes the kevlar, just two business entities involved in the same market, but from opposite ends.

As for the replicant's rebellious tendencies, think about it, if you were forced to work as a slave, how quick would you jump on an opportunity to get out of that?
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"We began to recognize in them a strange obsession..."

http://fcomin.cgsociety.org/gallery/

[Vader]

Except that it seems you were actually less likely to not be able to make a call on your iPhone 4 than, say, on your equally non-recalled HTC or Blackberry. But of course, nobody expects a Blackberry to be perfect...

The difference being that mobile phones slug it out on a competitive market, whereas all indications are that replicants do not. Tyrell Corp. seems to have a monopoly. There is no issue of a Tyrell replicant being more or less likely to kill you than, say, a Pfizer replicant.

And yes, the makers of the equipment very seldom also are the makers of its countermeasure. Same market, opposite ends. Total agreement.
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[TimeEnough]

I have definitive proof that Deckard is indeed human. When Zhora asks him if he's for real, he says in his real voice "oh yeah".

[steevy]

I don't care what Ridley thinks.Deckard is human!!

[joberg]

Alright, I stand corrected in my assumption that Tyrell was also the maker of the Voight-Kampff. My question is: at what time the Replicants became a problem? It seems that since the "retro-fit" look is a constance in the movie, it seems also that the V.K. machine was transformed over the years to detect better/faster the improved models churned by the Corp. One can see that there was, maybe, one main screen, the baffles and the eye piece, then, the add-on of an additional 2 screen unit to make sure other aspects of the detecting were covered, questions were refined. I think it became a problem for everybody involved from early on (my 2 cents)

[BR12819]

[joberg]

So by that deduction there wasn't any problems before that mutiny...Tyrell either developed better implanted memory chips or would it be possible that the androids became aware of their condition (by imitating humans and building a memory bank) and started to rebel? Possible...So the transformation of those replicants was rather fast (as well as the transformation of the V.K. and the questionnaire)...

[nickdaring]

[The Loyalizer]

In the book it was a problem even with the early models.

The opening crawl says in the 21st century Tryell evolved into the nexus phase, being indistinguishable from a human. We assume the 6 is the new model, but really it could've debuted in 2000 or later and been a best seller for almost a decade by the time the film opens up. The other thing is, and it's easy to overlook, but what if the four year lifespan is a recent development? After all I have owned several Bic lighters over the years, but I also have a zippo that's 20 years old and still works. The four year lifespan along with the false memories could've been Tyrell's answer to safety issues with the product.

One thing that seems to come across is that the memory implants for better control are something of a newer thing. Watch Leon and Roy's interaction in regards to the precious photos, there's almost a disdain in Roy's tone regarding them. Almost like he's talking to a kid that's a little too old to still believe in fairy tales. And Roy's regrets about his memories don't seem like implants, but recollections of actual events he witnessed, where Leon's are all about a childhood and a family he didn't have.
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"We began to recognize in them a strange obsession..."

http://fcomin.cgsociety.org/gallery/

[Art Deckard]

[Art Deckard]

[Art Deckard]

Just to add, I realise there is no right or wrong here and we all are clearly on a hiding to nothing!
It does illustrate what a curious film BR is though. There's a few inconsistencies and loopholes but, as Loyalizer says, it doesnt diminish the movie at all.

A decent summing up I read very recently is that BR doesn't quite work storywise but everybody wants to live there!

[andy]

This has been a great thread guys. Reminds me of some of the old days over at Bladezone and AFBR newsgroup. A part of me feels like we are having a Blade Runner renaissance.

Andy

[joberg]

Renaissance is always at work (specially in social/discussion groups like ours); on one side you have the "old guard" and on the other side the "new guard" and it's that mix that makes it interesting in terms of discussion, argument, solution, etc. It's always in motion, discovering new layers, new images and new ideas: I love it

[TimeEnough]

I agree.

My next question is why does Deckard ever go to Tyrell corperation in the first place? Was this to prove he could still detect after being gone for so long?

[steevy]

Time Enough,Bryant specifically sends him there to test a Nexus 6.They are unsure the VK works on Nexus 6 after Holden's failure.Frankly I think they screwed up in the crawl.I think androids and later replicants were fobidden on Earth shortly after they were developed(they perhaps participated in the last world war).The fact that BR is a secret police function indicates that people are unaware it is a problem ie that if they knew they would panic.

[joberg]

I'm not so sure about Leon and Holden's interview...I think that at the end of the interview Holden knows...hence the image of him holding his gun and crashing into the desk...it was a simple western scene: who was the fastest shooter. It takes longer to detect Rachael...but she's detected at the end of the excercice also. The V.K. works, albeit slowly than before, with the new models. Maybe it's all a game between RepDetect and Replicant: as a Replicant I think that I have a lot of infos on how to be human...as a RepDetect I have a lot of questions (and the V.K. for confirmation) to catch the Replicant.
It reminds me of that scheme the Germans tried during the battle of the Bulge: recruiting German soldiers that had lived in the U.S. (either for school or others) and dress them as U.S. soldiers to infiltrate and wreak havoc on the inside! They were discovered when U.S. soldiers started to ask them seemingly inocuous questions about baseball teams or mixing on purpose the name of known baseball players (like Babe Ruth playing for the Phillies )...

[Vader]

Too bad if some poor GI happens to be totally disinterested in baseball (come on, there have to be people even in America who know absolutely nada about the game!)...

I, too, have always taken Tyrell's assertions about burning twice as bright but half as long as an attempt to sweet-talk Roy into giving up his quest, while the information in what Bryant says I've taken to be literal truth in the context of the story.
This has to do with the storytelling structure: Bryan't conversation with Deckard is very much in the exposition phase of the story — the part where the audience gets to know and understand the world of the story — and if the information given there cannot be trusted, it becomes meaningless.
Tyrell's information on the other hand is so late in the story that its content or lack of veracity can be expected to be driven by the character and the situation, and hence may or may not be true.

The memory implant technology I've always taken to be a brand new development, to the point that Rachel is the only prototype (in the original version, that is — in the Director's Cut, Deckard himself is of course indicated to be another similarly implanted replicant).

It didn't take Holden many questions to snag Leon; it seems apparent he is not memory implanted. On the other hand, from Tyrell's impressed reaction, it seems that Deckard's test of Rachel is the first time a memory implanted replicant is given a V-K test.
What I have always wondered about however is, why doesn't Deckard quit after the first twenty, or forty, or fifty questions? Shouldn't there be a number that says that if the subject hasn't tripped after this number of questions, the test is negative? Or is it that Rachel's answers keep being ambiguous enough to warrant new questions?
It seems from Deckard's question to Tyrell after the test that even then, he isn't certain she actually is a replicant.[/i]
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