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Tom Southwell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:33 am    Post subject: adrenaline Reply with quote

Joberg,
Seems you guys have heard of our adrenaline.
It's true.
TS
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retrogarde
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

After all these years it feels like Ridley is trying to tie Alien and Blade Runner into one large narrative. But back when the film was being made (and with the obvious exception of the Spinner animation) was there any hint that these two fictional worlds would be connected?

I'm curious what PKD would make of it...

Were there any designs for things that Ridley felt were too similar to Alien and therefore didn't make the cut?

Thank you so much for answering questions!
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Brownclaw
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

retrogarde wrote:
Hi Tom,

After all these years it feels like Ridley is trying to tie Alien and Blade Runner into one large narrative. But back when the film was being made (and with the obvious exception of the Spinner animation) was there any hint that these two fictional worlds would be connected?

I'm curious what PKD would make of it...

Were there any designs for things that Ridley felt were too similar to Alien and therefore didn't make the cut?

Thank you so much for answering questions!


IIRC The hospital scene was deemed to be too 'Nostromo'ey and was hence removed, but I'm sure Tom will confirm or debunk. Thanks Tom btw for this amazing opportunity to speak to you Smile
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Tom Southwell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: BR and Alien linked? Reply with quote

Please don't think I am any more of a "player" than one of the production illustrators (and least senior at that).

I wasn't in the editing room. I was on Annie during most of the filming, but it was the same lot so I could pop in and see stuff briefly, and David L Snyder would buzz me if something important was going on.

I said on the DVD (Dangerous Days) many in the art department were using the "vibe" of Alien at the start (look at the interior of the elevator), but eventually got on track with what Larry and Ridley were doing. If you watched the filming at Union Station (police station set) or the Bradbury, or the Ennis Brown house, like I did, then you have to start to "get it".

It's only in retrospect, and certainly only a personal opinion that the hospital set looked out of place in BR (that did look a bit like Alien). So I agree with the decision to cut it, even if there was another reason.

Now to a question proposed: (are BR and Alien going to connect?)
There will always be a behind the scenes link: Ridley.
Alien was a horror film set in space ("in space no one can hear you scream".)
As I saw it, BR was a sad "Miles Davis" tome that hurts when you connect with it.
I had constant thoughts of Pinocchio ("I wish I was a real boy") and Boris Karloff's Frankenstein (" food - good") as I read the BR script. A clear sadness.

I think the idea of a link came with Prometheus which some have connected as a prequel to Alien. The prologue of that movie could have you thinking : "replicants". And that fits with my neon sign behind Deckard as we first see him. I say in Dangerous Days: "Origin, the secret question of BR, what is our origin?, where do we come from?, who are WE?"

While Alien is sooooooo many years down the line, and 2019 is not, a big bridge would be needed to get there.

And personally, I think true science fiction is telling us to be cautious about something in front of us RIGHT NOW, which Phillip K Dick did and BR certainly does.

Please don't forget my first sentence.

I am a fan and the luckiest S O B to have been in the middle of all that and I'm writing this because I knew back then I would be sharing it.
TS
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nickdaring
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean the Annie film where Deckard's whisky bottle appears?



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess Johnny Walker had an aggressive product placement guy on the lot.
Or should I say aggre$$ive ?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And yes, the Annie directed by John Huston, who directed the noir classic:
The Maltese Falcon starring Humphrey Bogart, ( that shot on those same back lot streets).

That's the one.
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BeastMaster
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that picture came to all our minds when Tom mentioned Annie

So if they really are linking Blade Runner to Alien then that means it is linked to Predator and also Aliens Vs Predator.... NNNNNNoooooooooo! Shocked Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of years ago I finally managed to get to talk to a lady fairly high up at Johnny Walker and she said she would try to find out if they had any input into the design. I was amazed when she did email back 3 weeks later and said that they were not approached or asked for permission to use their name and had nothing to do with the bottle. I asked if JW took action but she said nothing was done. I guess they were just happy to get their name mentioned.
I did post this at the time.

Tom, all this information you have given us is truly amazing. Thank you.
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joberg
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny that they used the plastic whiskey bottle for that scene in Annie Wink but you're right Tom, I don't think there's going to be that connection between Alien and Blade Runner...actually, I thought that some of the answers pertaining to BR were re-visited by Ridley in Black Rain (same initials BR also and I'm sure you know that Sherman Labby was the illustrator on that film Wink )

If the story is a little bit different (no questions about the "who are we and where are we going?") it's similar in terms of look (Japan, the signs, the neons, the culture, the smokey shots) there's finally some kind of investigation and police work done by the two heros Michael Douglas and Andy Garcia...something Deckard didn't do (according to Harrison).

One scene is on location inside Ennis House (to keep with the Blade Runner theme) and so on...
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Mr Webber
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was watching Black Rain again the other day J and found another Blade Runner reference.....



Completely forgot to ask you about the White Dragon with flashing tounge, can hear that noise as I type, neon sign Tom. Very iconic piece.
Is there anything you can share about its design and history? With advancments is tech such as EL lighting wire I started to put a scale replica together a while back but never advanced.
Also any pictures you may have that give a new perspective that you can post would be greatly appreciated.

Tim.
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Tom Southwell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim,
I'm pretty sure the tounge was silent so the sound was added in post. Isn't it the same sound as the bathroom light Deck taps?

I talk about the White Dragon in Dangerous Days. The neon sculpture of the dragon was suggested by a piece in a book I had: Let There Be Neon.
I made changes to their concept and did a rendering in scale that the sign company could build in tin and light with mostly white neon. Years later I was coming out of a restaurant during a film scout in Ogden Utah, USA, and I saw the sign from the book down the street so I took some pictures. (Look up Star Noodle company neon sign.) However, now the sign is no longer there.

I did a little sketch of the dragon and stuck it to a blueprint of Syd Mead's sketch of the noodle bar for Larry and Ridley to get their comments.
The two biggest differences between the two dragons: color, and my dragon does not tapper at the head and tail, while theirs does. I also illustrated scales and other details that were painted on it.
The building appears to have scales on the roof, completing the dragon concept. I'm sure Ridley must have used the word "Diner" when discussing the idea with Larry and Syd... but I wasn't there for that.

I sent a bunch of stuff on the white dragon to Spinner44 years ago but never heard how his project went.

And Joberg,
Sherman Labby drew storyboards for Ridley for the rest of his life. And I did 16 movies with Sherman but only the one with Ridley (two if you count DD). ...and one with Tony that stopped in development.
TS
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Ridleyville,
You are welcome. Thanks for your information.
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jakob2121
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: the neon sign

A few years ago I tried to track down the missing dragon sign, and was told that it was sitting on a county lot in severe disrepair. The story I was told was that it was sent off to be renovated, but the funding disappeared and it was never finished. Anybody near Ogden know if it ever came out of mothballs?
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Tom Southwell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know the whereabouts of the one we made for BR?

It wasn't at the 2007 party at the Bradbury.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tom for the info...and no news pertaining the the dragon used in BR Crying or Very sad The one they used at the Bradburry for the party is another design altogether.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: some answers. Reply with quote


[



I dove into the archive to find answers to some questions and found slim shreds of info you may enjoy:

Someone was asking about The White Dragon neon creature (two tongues).
This is the "under" drawing for the final measured drawing (which is gone).
"Groucho" is where I got the police lettering idea, although I hand lettered it.
The Planes Of The Head was a sculpture by John Asaro created as a study model. I sketched the ridges and thought this would be a good artificial head to talk to Deck as a green neon line head that talks to Deck from within his ESPER machine. I adapted it to a magazine cover when Esper lost this function due to lack of funds.
The VK logo is 1 and 1/2 inches from left edge to right edge.(99% positive)

and finally, to put the question of my memory to rest, i include these notes (I was taught to take in school), which help to remind me of dates, assignments, meetings and deadlines. The map for neon was a conversation with Larry and David. I had suggestions but only they could authorize the placement. They would be responsible.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote




(I actually have the "An Evening with Groucho" Vinyl Record Picture Disc)
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joberg
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Tom...so much infos to digest and unravel Cool .
First thing: the logo of my V.K. is 4cm x 3cm wich is to say that I'm off by 1/16th of an inch each way (plus for the lenght and minus for the width) Shocked Now that's freaky

Great drawing of the dragon; love it ! And the notes and the location of various props/decor, etc is fantastic stuff also.

Great discovery about the fonts used for the Spinner...who new that it was from a LP titled: "An Evening With Groucho".

As for the head: very Art-Deco (love the idea of having this "talking head" combine with the Esper!)
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andy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember the info about the "Evening with Groucho" album being talked about years ago on BladeZone, or TheRPF. It was a big find at the time, and is still a great revelation. Glad to see it totally authenticated here.

In the BR sketchbook there is a concept drawing from Syd Mead about a 3D talking head VidPhon recording machine. The head he drew looks very familiar to the Head model photographed here. The talking esper was also in the early scripts.

Love seeing all this stuff and the all the details I could only imagine coming to life here. Every day is like Christmas here Very Happy.

Thank you again Tom!

Andy
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