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joberg
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tom for sharing all of this with us; I cannot stop feeling lucky and giddy (the wife is getting jealous Very Happy ) about it all.

For sure the Architecture was very "Brutal Art-Deco" and many movies (Sci-Fi generally) have used the Albert Speer style and the design of the 3rd Reich into their costumes and insignas.

I love the mix of the "Roman Stlye with the "Napoleonic Style" and the "Albert Speer Style". Basically 3 recycled designs present into Hitler's germany at the time...the eagle being its main leit-motiv Wink

Thanks also for the FYI on Linden Frederick.
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Tom Southwell
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Leviathan Reply with quote

Offworld66,
Lots of BR and Alien links to Leviathan:
Ron Cobb (Alien) was production designer (Oh, did you know he was given $1M. To NOT direct E.T.)

And two of the Leviathan art directors were set designers on BR.
Bill Skinner did all the working drawings for the Spinner, (based on Syd Mead's design.) And David Klassen drew a major part of the LA street, among many other assignments.
TS
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8th_Passenger
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom, thanks for the measurement.

Joberg wrote
Quote:
Thanks again Tom...now with that measurement, Colin can start his V.K.


Tom Wrote
Quote:
Joberg,
You are right: Colin, start your engines.


Okay here’s where I’m at.

I was scaling the unit up by using the gang of six extension in the background of this photograph.



I took a gamble that an American gang of six extension is pretty much the same now as it was in 1980. So I found some online which were 12 1/4” long.

From this I worked out the length to be 325mm. But this measurement was based on a slightly shorter extension I found a few weeks ago. So with a slight re calculation I would make it about 350mm wide now.

Proportionally I have based my front elevation on this picture (Which may or may not be a prototype).



So as it stands now my front elevation is 325mm wide.
The VK logo is 28mm wide.
The top ‘Voight kampff’ graphic 70mm long.
The buttons on the right of the main monitor 12mm square.
The unit is about 100mm high to the top of the main monitor (minus feet).
The main monitor is 70mm on the diagonal.

If I sale up my drawing proportionally to Tom's VK logo size I get these measurements.

This makes the machine 450mm wide.
VK logo is now 1 1/2” (38mm approx)
The top VK graphic is 96mm long.
The buttons 16mm square.
The unit minus feet 138mm high.
The main monitor 96mm on the diagonal.

I was hoping Tom’s VK logo measurement would solve my dilemma's but at 1 1/2” wide it’s bigger than I was hoping.

I see the machine as being quite small and 350mm wide seems a good size (but part of me thinks it’s too small).

But 450mm wide seems too wide.

But based on the extension cable comparison 350mm seems closest.

So I'm not sure where to go from here.

Colin
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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Southwell wrote:

And finally to my graphic design master, friend, SkinJob66:
I do not recognize the cigarette pack you point out, but if I was discussing this with a student ( which I am not) I might point out that the crumpled pack looks very familiar, non intrusive, comfortable, always was there, but not so you would notice it.


Thank you again, Tom !
You're right once more, this pack looks familiar... In a way it's even VERY familiar. I have to admit that it took me years to realize it came from the LUCKY STRIKE pack redesigned by Raymond Loewy !
This fact is more obvious when one realizes that the black lines above the BALAJI logo aren't black at all but red and green (some color chart used on the Aspen beer cans), just like on the white version of the LS pack by Loewy...
I also think the pack is taller than the Gitanes cigarettes smoked by Lambert and Kane that were supposed to be inside, but that's another story...

Tom Southwell wrote:

We try so hard to not have stuff in movies that looks like a prop man just put it there, or a costume just put on, or makeup just fixed, or a matte shot slapped on at the last minute. This one skill could be Ridleys greatest best kept secret.


He also seems to have a very good taste for beautifully crafted objects...

Tom Southwell wrote:

Your hint that the pack was made from clip art like Dorgon, or Creative Evolution is probably correct. We just need that designer or prop man to step forward like I did.
And David and I both worked on Brainstorm ( my second and last film with Natalie). I would hand her, every morning, her props, and collect them when she was done on Meteor. (I would get lost in those eyes.)
TS


Oh wow, you also worked on BRAINSTORM ? I have rediscovered this one a couple of months ago and it doesn't have aged at all ! Well, I mean, yes, it has aged, the technology used is so primitive compared to what we have today but the SFX and the production design are beautiful, so ahead of their time ! (and you don't laugh before the technology used, you believe in it, actually you see this side of the film like a testimony of the state of the art technology used back then)

This film has influenced so many films like Strange Days, the Matrix, Inception, etc...
To me it's very close in a way to TRON, but a version of TRON for grown ups.

A true gem.

Fred
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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Basket refrence. Reply with quote

Tom Southwell wrote:
SkinJob, (Fred)
I found these examples of Native American baskets that Ridley had
loaned me. Some were miniatures made by the Pima Tribe after 1900
near the Gila River, Arizona, USA.

When I presented the art piece to Ridley I suggested this be an animated "light-up" graphic on top of the police station where the outer parts of it light up first and in sequence it steps closer to the middle ( to indicate to the pilot where to land ). Ridley loved the idea. ( There was, at one time, a shot over the pilot , inside the Spinner looking down through the windows in the floor to the top of the building.) Ridley asked ME to bring this idea to VFX and explain it the same way, which I did. However they were squeezed financially so I guess that's why it didn't happen.
TS


Thank you again, again & again for sharing all these amazing images with us, Tom ! Thes eindian baskets are beautiful and the way you have reinterpreted one of them absolutely brilliant. Your version looks like a city landscape as seen through a fish eye (or HAL 9000's eye maybe ?)


Great idea also for the roof of the police station, it's amazing what a simple basket can inspire to gifted artsits such as yourself ! (it's a pity it couldn't make it to the screen)
Cool

Fred
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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: More triangles and some SS ref. Reply with quote

Tom Southwell wrote:


This fits in the thread where I talk about the "knife on the finger".
Yes that does say "995" at the bottom.

TS


I LOVE this sign a lot, even if it's barely seen on screen !
Thank you again for sharing, Tom !

Cool

Fred
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joberg
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin, I measured my V.K. and respected the way you've put your list together.

Joberg's measurements:

43cm wide
Logo: 4cm wide
V.K. graphic: 9,5cm long
Buttons: 1,5cm square
Unit less the feet: 13cm high
Main monitor: 12,5 diag.

As you can see, some of your and my measurements are dead-on and some are way out-there. Let's say that my prop is in between your two main lists of numbers.

Mods, if you feel like moving this thread to the appropriate place, please do so
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joberg
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45 neon signs Shocked You win Tom! We had started an informal list quite a few years ago but if my memory serves me well, we never came close to that number.

We discovered the Adam Ant and the Mao-tse-tung paintings on 2 columns also. Overdose of details...love it to bits Cool
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BeastMaster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even more cool info/pics!? Shocked Tom you're like the Blade Runner magician! You keep pulling this amazing stuff out the hat! I don't want it to end

Another question about the ID cards I forgot to ask. Did you ever see the final versions the prop guys made from your designs? Going by the police one photographed at Worldcon they slightly differed from your concept with the name layout (R. Deckard XV) and number (J 5199-95).

Do you know if Deckards name would have been 'Rick Deckard' instead of R. Deckard' on the final prop and the number would have changed to his '26354..' number?

Also in the deleted scenes Gaff and Bryant have ID cards pinned to their shirt pockets. Do you know what their full names would have been on the card? Especially Gaff, might be a revelation if we knew his actual intended name in the movie Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I just realised the Worldcon ID uses the 'J 5199-95' number, so it's safe to assume that is the number on all of them Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Rick Deckard. Reply with quote

BeastMaster,
Rick Deckard was his name but Ridley and the script only said Deckard.
I think the Rick came from "...Electric Sheep".
Very few characters had full names (dehumanizing isn't it?).
But for a police I.d. A bit more was expected so: R. Or Rick was decided.

When preproduction folks started to get laid off in March due to expenses tightening I asked when I would go, and it was agreed first week in May.
I made plans for a trip to Europe so I could bring my Mom. Ridley had more for me but the plans and commitment to Mom couldn't change.

I think Jack Neville made any last minute changes to the I.d. Badges, and any other graphic they wanted. (That circle of confetti at the bottom was after I left.) Another illustrator finished Batty's tattoos.

I went on to Annie but I may have done a thing or two on the weekends for BR, and as I said, I visited the set daily.

Most characters had only one name. Gaff, Holden, Bryant, Rachel, Priss, to name a few. But there were also J.F. Sebastian, Eldon Tyrell, Hannibal Chew, Roy Batty (baddy), Leon Kowalsky ( not sure of spelling), and Taffy Lewis.
It's been my experience that authors and film makers choose names with a combination of wit and relevance...as it often happens in real life. The song "a boy named Sue" comes to mind.
I have 3 different BR scripts and i looked to see if they mentioned Rick Deckard at the beginning as is often done, but no. The Rick thing must have been a "prop conversation". But check the PKD, I think he's there.

And the numbers...I don't know. I gave my best information.
TS
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just returning to the Neon side for a moment, a couple of years ago i spoke to a guy called Dr Neon who said that he had the Dragon neon with the moving tongue. He said that it had been remounted although it was no longer animated. He said he was involved in the manifacture of some of the displays.
I tried many times to negotiate and get more details but nothing ever happened in the end.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Neon, neon, and more neon. Reply with quote

Bassnoir wrote:
.."One From The Heart"...musical masterpiece that gets very little love...Coppola's recreation of the Vegas Strip on a soundstage was insane as was the incredible Vegas Junk Yard...soundtrack by Tom Waits and Crystal Gayle...an amazing film with amazing design elements...a very hard movie to define...musical...drama...comedy...theatrical...fantasy...mind boggling...all that and Nastassja Kinski...damn damn damn...I love that movie...


I visited the sets of "One From The Heart" about a year before working on BR. Dean Tavoularis ( the production designer) was one of my sponsors to The Academy ( along with Lawrence G Paull ) so he graciously took me around . Vitorio Sterrarro, the great DP was shooting the film, and as I have posted here before, he also shot Agatha with Dustin Hoffman, which inspired Ridley Scott in many ways on BR.

I agree, Bass. A stunning film on many levels. The neon alone is worth deep study.
TS
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Dr Neon. Reply with quote

ridleyville wrote:
Just returning to the Neon side for a moment, a couple of years ago i spoke to a guy called Dr Neon who said that he had the Dragon neon with the moving tongue. He said that it had been remounted although it was no longer animated. He said he was involved in the manifacture of some of the displays.
I tried many times to negotiate and get more details but nothing ever happened in the end.


Ridville,
Perhaps I need to call Dr Neon and get a checkup on Mr Dragon.

I know a museum that might like to have that.
TS
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The name Taffy Lewis comes from a film with Jose Ferrer (B&W, early '50s...the name escapes me right now Confused ).
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phase pistol
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! How have I missed this thread all this time? Shocked

Tom, sir, thank you so much for taking your time to do this thread. There's little I can add that has not already been said, so I'll just reiterate:

Wow.

Karl
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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phase pistol wrote:
Wow! How have I missed this thread all this time? Shocked


Because you spend too much time on the RPF, maybe ?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One member who hasn't chime in is Kurtyboy Confused Sent him a PM, but no answer.
He would be interested in all of this since he's also one to make paper props...
I know he's active on the RPF Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SKIN JOB 66 wrote:
Because you spend too much time on the RPF, maybe ?



I am duly burned, sir. Shocked

Razz
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RPF?

What's that?
TS
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