What's my unbuilt 2007 SidKit worth?

[Dascoyne]

I'm playing catch-up here so bear with me if I show my ignorance.

In August 2007 I purchased an all-metal SidKit online from the Siderio. I organized the parts neatly into ziplock bags and printed the instructions. I've been admittedly intimidated by the work so I forgot about it entirely until recently.

Fast forward to 2013. I happened to watch Adam Savage on youtube talking about his BR blasters. Of course I recognized the SidKit and I immediately went to find a Tomenosuke PRO ... sadly sold out. After logging back onto these forums after many years I just learned that Siderio passed away (R.I.P).

I did, however, get the Tomenosuke PRO kit, thank goodness, which looks a heck of a lot easier than the SidKit. Unfortunately it has quite a bit more plastic than the Sid.

I really don't want the weathered worcon look. I want my blaster(s) to look like it did to me in 1982 (in my 16 year old interpretation) - like a blued, unweathered blaster with dark amber grips.

My question is this. While I'm not sure I want to let go of the kit, it'll be nice to know if it's at all in demand and what it might be worth. If I had the opportunity to get one of the early Tomenosuke PRO ("as issue") blasters I might consider selling the SidKit to help fund the purchase. I haven't ruled out Coyle but I can only find weathered ones.

Thanks for any info/advice.

Edit: initially I thought it was a 2006 but I actually purchased it in 2007.

[darthwolf7]

Just saw a Sidkit ho for about $800.00 on EBay...the metal versions are awesome!! I SO wish I could afford her...good luck! Those are very cool and becoming more and more rare! Cheers!

[andy]

Depending on which version you have it could go from original price of about $400 to well over $1000. The better prices are reserved for those with the upgraded Worldcon parts, and also if they had been built up, and how professional the build was. As usual though once you put something in an auction it could go anywhere above or below those estimates as well as anywhere in between. His old partner Michele was selling a few of these in the $600-$800 range, but they seem to have sold out, and only the mixed material versions seem to be showing up for sale now. Since he has the molds, and the recipe for the metal mixture, there is really nothing to stop him from making more if he chooses, but he might have given up with that.

Like you pointed out, these kits are only for experienced model makers, and in the end you get an over sized, mostly inaccurate, and very heavy replica made of soft pewter. On the other hand there has always been a demand for them for those reasons alone, and people have made some incredible replicas with them. They could go for pretty good prices, and if I could trade mine for a Coyle or a Tomenosuke build up, I would in a heart beat

Andy

[darthwolf7]

I dream if owning a Richard Coyle blaster someday?! He only has three of them or so left and the last one went for $1825.00 on EBay. I didn't realize the Sidkits were that inaccurate!? Great info Andy...thanks!

[Dascoyne]

[darthwolf7]

What are you asking for it?...If you don't mind me asking?! You can send me personal message if you don't want post it up here...

[clutch]

[Staar]

[racprops]

Well my early grips were based on the stunt casting and so were short...

And as he copied my model his versions of my grips made them short as well.

Rich
_________________
I never have enough time to do all I want to do!

[Dascoyne]

... I guess that settles it.

[andy]

I have honestly not compared the metal Sidkit to the Tomenosuke as of yet. I do know what Rich is saying is correct. I have two stunt castings, and even though the barrel of both are about the same length, the grips are more than 10% shorter on one of them. Rich figured out that the one stunt casting may have been molded in a way that made just the grips shorter, and that is the one he based his initial ratio's off of when reconstructing the guns from real parts. The grips and side covers had to be sculpted though, and he only had the stunt castings to work off of at that point.

Rich's first guns set the standard, and many of those like the Offworld, copied Rich's ratio on the grips, even if they were able to get the barrel close to the real Steyr in size, the grips were always out of proportion, and too short. Sidkits kits were also larger over all than Rich's and some of the parts seemed even fatter, which may have been a result of the molding of the metal and use of Bismuth perhaps, which expands upon cooling. Metal parts themselves will expand the silicone molds when poured into them. This made Sid's guns a bit larger than many of the others out there.

Since the first standards were based on copies, of copies of stunts, it is likely that they all started out a little small, but Rich did use real Steyr and Charter Arms gun parts on his late 90's guns, and from what I first saw is that they were nearly right on in size with those parts. I guess I am assuming that since Sid's parts were larger, that his over all gun size was larger as well. The grips of course would not have made up the difference at that point, until at least when Sid did his Worldcon version of the grips, that were a little bit longer.

I will have to do some new comparisons to see the size differences on the new Tomen's. I did notice in what Parts I did compare that they were not 100% to the real gun parts, so I will have to do some new measurements to go with my size comparison charts.

Andy

[darthwolf7]

This is all really cool news! Great to know especially since I only have an Off World at the moment that I have been modifying with real parts and various other upgrades like better screws and zoom rounds plus a bore sight round...always felt the grips were way too small for most folks!?? Anyone out there got a set of proper grips that might fit on my Off World?! Anyway, interesting thread...I'm learning a lot!!! Cheers!

[racprops]

The thing was on the stunt model the Steyr Receiver was very close to full size, (Allowing for normal first gen mold shrinkage) as was the ammo housing SO I figured that so if all the upper gun parts was right sized so the grips had to be full size as well.

That leaves only 2 possible ideas: Some how the mold was compressed when the castings were made causing the shorten grips OR

The stunt model HAD short grips and so the grip frame was short as well.

IF the later was true then when they redid the butt plate I think they redid the grips and grip frame as well.

I seem to remember that there was a interesting defect on the stunt grips, what seems to be a double hole of one side's grip mounting lower hole, this does not show up any where else.

I summit if this shows up on any stunt castings that this shows that a second set of grips were made.

I was just checking pictures on my own and cannot find this defect.

Rich
_________________
I never have enough time to do all I want to do!

[andy]

Makes me wonder if the stunts with the shorter grip may have been molded off of the ones with the resin amber grips as seen on Deckard's stunt, as opposed to the full rubber police stunts. It is possible they cut down the grips in order to cut off the rubber grip sides from the bottom of the grip, and then refit the butt plate or a replacement, thus shortening the grips just to make them flush. It would also explain the second screw hole for the grip side.

I love a new mystery for the gun. The more I think about this the cooler it gets.

Andy

[racprops]

My thinking is they made the hero with the short grips and flat butt plate..made the mold and cast the stunts and then was told the handle is too small and asked the prop guys to redo things.

So a longer grip and grip frame and new finger re leaved butt plate.

Rich
_________________
I never have enough time to do all I want to do!

[andy]

Pretty big jump in number of assumptions, and it doesn't really explain the two different stunt styles so much. Occam wouldn't agree.

I suppose it is possible that they made several different stunt molds at different times in the guns construction, but it seems much more likely that the initial run of the stunts were it, and they just cut up and painted those to use in production. I can see the hero gun itself going through stages and modifications, but I have a hard time believing that they made more stunt castings off of it, and give more chances at damaging it, or reducing it's function by having to clean out the filler clay, and chancing the clay or silicone getting into the deep working parts of the gun...for a second time.

I think we really aren't comparing screen used stunt casts, but ones made from them. In other words the different molds were made by fans after the movie was finished of the existing stunt casts in private hands. We do know that some of the stunts were cut up to make the stunts with the grips, so I was hoping we could make a direct connection. I also did compare two of my stunts to see that the grip angles are also different, but the grips themselves looks identical in pattern and cutting. More likely theory is the distorted mold again. I know if you don't mix the silicone well or let it cool evenly before taking it apart, you can get some warpage. There are a lot of variables including multiple stunt gun versions in different peoples hands. I just find it weird that after all these years we still see mainly 2 distinctly different versions of those castings, at least dimensionally, and that the most distorted one might be the most common. Unless it was based on bad casting to begin with, or a trash rescue, garbage picked reject. Also something we do know happens in Hollywood.

Maybe we also need a new thread for this?

Andy

[racprops]

One factor is the rubber stunt guns were most likely Urethane Foam and ITS dynasty is variable, change the amount of catalyst and you get a softer foam or a harder casting.

This also effects the pressure made by the foam.

The above can cause the foam castings to come out some what different in size.

If you look at my article http://www.racprops.com/issue1/brgun_pt2/ and at this set of pictures http://www.racprops.com/issue1/brgun_pt2/brgun1.htm you will see a model made from the fist generation of castings made from the first run copies made from a rubber stunt.

It has had a few details replaced but it came from the cleanest version and for all I know ALL hard copies that followed all came from this first run of about 15 models.

I also think some of the rubber stunts out there may be recast copies of some of these original hard copies to recreate fake stunts...

I was very lucky last year to get what seemed to be either a copy from that first run OR a second gen. casting made from one of those.

I feel the true test is how close to a real Steyr receiver one of these babies run in size.

We all know each generation of molds made off a copy causes a smaller model to be made, I have one such copy that is now so small it is like a 75% sized toy, it must be about a 10th Gen.

As far as I have ever seem this has been just about the only difference in the hard cast copies of the stunt: Size.

Oh and some that have had the screw heads replaced.
I have not been able to compare any of the real rubber stunt castings.

Up until now I figured the real foam stunts would all be the same is size as I figured there was only one mold made to make the stunts and I agree they would have only taken one mold off the Hero.

And I feel as there are so many details MISSING from the stunt vs. the hero, that the final hero was changed in many ways.

IE: The stunt is missing the LEDs in the ammo clip, all five..second there was two holes in the ammo housing that is not part of the real ammo housing..

AND these holes are WRONG to the real placement of the screws and that one with the rod we now know on the hero, I KNOW because these stunt holes do not match the pictures of the hero housing and I had to redo these holes to get things right.

I feel that as a couple of my stunt castings are very near to the real size of the Steyr receiver it is closes to the first gen run.

And yet the grips and grip frame and the butt plate and the ammo housing and clip are not the same as the hero.

There are as different as was the Black and White classic phaser were to the Dark gray and light gray/blue classic Phasers that follow.

I feel like these, major changes were made from the first Hero prop and its mold that the stunt props were made from to the final Hero prop we saw within the film.

And I feel I have proved the Worldcon model was also changed with the Weaver Knob that cannot be found anywhere within the film and that ALL stills and freeze frames only show the screw head.

You cannot remove things like holes and LEDs and their holders nor switches in a mold, so these changes came after the stunt mold was made.

My two cents worth.

Rich
_________________
I never have enough time to do all I want to do!

[joberg]

Interesting discussion to say the least...things to learn everyday, specially with the stunt casting and the original gun.

[darthwolf7]

Love learning all this stuff...everyone's knowledge is so vast on this subject!? A course should be given on the hero gun alone!!!

[clutch]

Me too. I think I'm gonna build my Sid as practice for my Tomen.