FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Profile Log in to check your private messages
 Forum Index      Log in  Register
Which all-metal blaster?
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Blade Runner Blaster Information and Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
amish
Community Guide


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1429
Location: Outside Philadelphia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot speak to the mold making process or anything that is involved with creating a resin kit. I do want to say that the kit(s) I have received and seen from Rick Ross are impeccable.

I know that all the makers of the BR blaster compete for sales and such, but have you, Rich, ever thought of contacting Rick Ross for details of how he makes his molds or seeking other advice?

I say this not to attack you or your workmanship, but so that you may be able to improve upon what you already do. I would imagine if your product came out of the mold very clean, then you could see a cost and time saving on your part and maybe down to road the customers could see the same savings.

Just a thought!! Otherwise, no matter what opinions are expressed, I think it is a great thing that everyone can gather and discuss these topics freely and openly with one another. Whether or not the discussions remain civil, the open discussion and help being offered is fantastic!

Thank you all for making this place what it is

Tom
_________________
www.propsummit.com
www.bladerunnerprops.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Author Message
racprops
Community Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2450
Location: Phoenix AZ

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a nice idea, but I would not ask him for his trade secrets any more that I would expect him to ask for mine.

My mold making seems to be as good as it can be, it seems to be the wiliness to spend time in clean up before shipping.

IF I have to spend any real time in clean up I feel I might as well go all the way and finish the model.

The rest is apples and oranges, I prefer to cast, clean up and sell fully built models.

There are people who want to buy these.

There are people willing to buy a kit and spend hours building it.

Some will come out great, some will not.

To some people price, cheap price is everything.

They get what they pay for.

Rich
_________________
I never have enough time to do all I want to do!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Author Message
amish
Community Guide


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1429
Location: Outside Philadelphia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich,

Thank you for the reply. I was not intending you to ask for trade secrets, but I am sure there are many different ways of making molds and pulling from them.

From my limited knowledge, Rick does not perform a lot of cleanup from his pulls. I only thought that if you could achieve a pull that has minimal cleanup that your end result and total time spent in creating a final product would be that much better.

This would give you more time to spend on finishing touches and such, and also being able to get more product out the door.

Otherwise, I wish you the best and look forward to seeing your all-metal version as I have heard great things of your metal versions.

Tom
_________________
www.propsummit.com
www.bladerunnerprops.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Author Message
andy
Community Guide


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6217
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Most of the labor is not cleaning off the flash, pour points etc, they are cut off with a power tool or power sander, it is cleaning up the surface for the paint job and the drilling and tapping and fitting the parts and then the painting and repainting and then assembly, that is where the work goes.

Has any one clocked how many hours you spend cleaning, fitting , gluing painting a Sidkit model??


Rich this contradicts what you said about the labor it takes to finish your kits and why you don't do kits

Quote:
IF I have to spend any real time in clean up I feel I might as well go all the way and finish the model.


I have seen castings from other people's molds that do not have any 'clean up' at all on them and they look better than the castings I have got from you. I am sure Rick would freely share what he does as do so many others on the RPF. This could save you a lot of time and frustration if you could improve upon them. I think you are jumping to conclusions that everybody else has the same issues that you do, to the same degree. I hope you aren't an old dog that can't be taught new tricks, because I would like to see the "BEST BR GUN EVER" come from you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
racprops
Community Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2450
Location: Phoenix AZ

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey if Rick or some other real model maker is willing to tell me what they do and show me how they get clean flash free pulls (If such a thing really happens...) I am very interested.

The discussions here is not how can we make my life easier, but how can we get Rich to make cheap kits.

Three things in my world seem unchangeable:

1) Molds have to have pour points, a way to get the plastic and metal into them. You have to break or cut them off. And then work really hard to sand, polish and paint them so it seems these points look like they never were....


2) Most molds have parting lines, I hide my very well but again parting lines will show and can cause flash, And again you need to clean they up. And then work really hard to sand, polish and paint them so it seems these lines look like they never were....


3) All castings will show molding marks, the more you work a mold the more marks show up. I can start with a shinny super clean mold. Start casting and from mold leaching (plastic getting into the rubber) and ware they parts will start showing blotching and the shinny will start to turn dull.
And then work really hard to sand, polish and paint them so it seems these marks look like they never were....

Bottom line the more you work really hard to sand, polish and paint them so it seems these marks look like they never were....the better the finish of your model will be.

It is the fine finishing that is so labor intensive.

Casting large metal parts have their own problems.

We are getting about 10 to 15 parts before the mold is worn out and needs replacement.

And from what I have gotten before in metal these guys are great.
Still all three things listed above apply here as well.

And I have pictures that show Sidkits model is not all that much better, at lease at the time these pictures were taken anyway.

Bottom line someone will spend hours cleaning and sanding and painting and assembling a model, on mine I do the work, and there is very little difference between each model finish and detail wise.

I understand the fun of doing it your self and that your model is special and of your own handy work and one of a kind, and for those that can do the work and want to do the work, great.

I serve the other ones.

Rich
_________________
I never have enough time to do all I want to do!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Author Message
Prefect42
Community Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagle.

As to your original question, I personally feel that the Coyle is worth the money if you can swing it. He has always pushed the envelope for accuracy.

I'm anxiously awaiting the new all-metal Coyle which Rich says will be shipping soon. I've seen pictures of the progress he is making and it looks amazing.

Rich sells a high end display piece. His work has always been on the pricier side, in my opinion. And as other have pointed out, he sells display pieces. I'm curious to see how the new model feels in hand. One of the cool things so many have said about the Sid kit is that it is heavy. And there is something about holding a metal blaster that resin just can't compare to.

My biggest concern was the size of the grips on most replicas. But Rich has addressed that and the latest pictures look like he nailed it.

We've all seen some very nice build ups from Siderio's kits. And they are a less expensive alternative. And I own an original release Rick Ross that is everything people say his kits are. I think you cannot go wrong with any of these three choices. But in my opinion, if you have the money and want the best, go with a Coyle.

Everyone seems to have an opinion about these kits and the makers. These are my opinions and I believe that is what you were asking for at the beginning of this thread. I just hope you let us know what you decide to go with and show us some pictures.

Ted.
Prefect42.
_________________
Don't be cruel. There's no reason to be cruel. After all, nomatter where you go, there you are.

Buckaroo Banzai
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
bbabich
Community Member


Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich, some people just don't get it and you are one of those people.

We are NOT talking about KITS we are talking about your comments as to how frustrated you are with the amount of time and effort you spend cleaning up your parts. What part of these comments don't you understand?

I think everyone would agree (Tom, Andy and Oncebitten please correct me if I am wrong) that if you were to spend less time on labor intensive clean up that you could spend more time at perfecting your masters and your 'crude' molds.

Your problem is that you have not changed how you do things since the late 80's or early 90's during your 'brief stint in the biz.' Your old techniques are not as marketable as they used to be to collectors. Even though I am not interested in your pieces as has been well documented in the past, I am more than willing to offer you perspective to help you become more marketable.

I am sorry Rich, I have typed too much over the past year trying to help an old dog learn new tricks.

If nothing else Rich, you do provide endless amounts of entertainment.

-Bryan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
bbabich
Community Member


Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagle,

To answer the original intent of the thread, go with a Sid in a few months. If you dont want to do the buildup, there are many people on these boards who can do an amazing buildup of one as you have seen on other boards.

Sid will have a reworked piece out soon from what I hear that will have the correct butt plate (the back on the Coyle is wrong), correct grip angle, and no baby rattle effect, ect.

Also, there are a few guys out there that can take the Coyle and mod the hell out of it to make it exactly like the Worldcon piece in many of the details I have mentioned as well as an amazing paint job. I have seen someone repaint a Coyle 4.8 and it looks much better. A talented painter and an airbrush go a long way. However, you still have some of the warnings Oncebitten has documented very well on his review of this piece. His icon says it well EVEN FOR A DISPLAY PIECE.

-Bryan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
racprops
Community Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2450
Location: Phoenix AZ

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Does anyone know the definition of insanity? It goes something like this:
Repeating the same flawed behavior while expecting different results.”
AND:
"You cannot ever hope to reason with an Un-reasonable mind."

Wow you really describe my trying to reason with you and certain people on these boards!!

I really have to learn that to some, it is getting an answer from me that is the main thing.

NOT really talking, just get a reaction. So play your word spinning games with someone else. You are off my list.

Well I guess Sid did buy one of my new models after all, time will tell, sadly the ones I did sell were not totally there yet so my little mistakes will show up again and again.

To others, the All metal model will be a very solid model, after all its metal!!!

And I will still have the best and most accurate, so if you want the best ..

I am not crying (god the word spinning they do..)about all the clean up, I am just saying by the time I have what I conside a good model I have done 1/3 to ½ of the clean up and thus the a lot of work.

And I am waiting for someone to show me a better way, I do not think there is a better way, just that those kits were cleaned up by their makers prior to shipping. (Labor)

And that “review” is so funny I really hope he keeps it up unchanged for others to enjoy…

Like this little gem:

You even claim I lied to you, BECAUSE I call my self a PROPmaker and THUS I HAVE to make a hard tough indestructible PROP. That I can not make a display model as I claim to be a PROPmaker…

Stupid Earthling: props can be any thing from a break away stunt PROPS, to hard rubber stunt PROPS, to background PROPS, to “HERO PROPS” which often are the full dress working PROPS for the close ups and none of these need to be indestructible, studios order many copies of props so they can replace any broken during filming.

But you never never worked in Hollywood for over 14 years so you don’t know.

Rich
_________________
I never have enough time to do all I want to do!


Last edited by racprops on Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Author Message
Noeland
Community Guide


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My vote:

If you have the cash, get the metal sound and light Coyle.
_________________
I don't have enough blasters!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
steevy
Community Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Wish list Reply with quote

The latest Coyle and the Hartford cap....I like the Hartford's extras(case etc)The Sidkit is nice especially in chrome like base metal but I don't have the skills to pull that off.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Author Message
andy
Community Guide


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6217
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich, the only way you can truly silence your critics is make the best damn Blade Runner gun ever. You can then charge pretty much what you want. Yes, I guess that does make me pretty much envious that I will more than likely that I will not be able to afford one. I can live with that.

Though I do think the evidence you have shown and I have seen makes me feel that Sidkit at one time copied your guns. He did what any good propmaker would do and used the best reference material available to him. Since the real guns are not available to him, he used reference from all the guns out there including yours and others probably copied off of yours. A car designer does not reinvent the wheel every time he designs a new car. he works with the best done before and tries to improve upon that.

I guess I am just trying to tell you once again that you need to move forward yourself. You and your guns have been the best gun out there for a long time running. I just hope you can not bog yourself down in the details and miss the big picture.

I can also say that if I had the spare cash I would most certainly buy one of your all metal guns. I would buy one of each version of all your guns if I had the money.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
racprops
Community Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2450
Location: Phoenix AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andy.

I try to only answer the commits that cast any question to my work.

I do some trading as well...

And take payments as well.

Rich
_________________
I never have enough time to do all I want to do!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Author Message
Noeland
Community Guide


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich, you mentioned that both you and Siderio were casting metal parts in pewter. This isn't a subject I'm well educated in, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. Smile

Are there different "grades" of casting metals, or casting pewters? Does the hardness or softness of the final casting depend on the temperature used to cast it? Or should we expect the same kind of "softness" of the metal that I keep hearing SK's have, if we buy yours?

Also, I was not aware you took payments, are we talking like scheduled set amounts, or a more informal type "send what you have until it's paid off, then you will ship it" kind of thing? I could imagine that becoming difficult to keep track of though.
_________________
I don't have enough blasters!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
racprops
Community Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2450
Location: Phoenix AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An old saying is “There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers”

Yes, my guys say they have 9 grades of Pewter, but as we have run these molds often the deciding factor has been which one works and will cast the best part.

I have asked for the hardest possible in all cases.

But none the lest it is still a low temp metal, drop it and it will dent.

And pewter is the only metal we can get, next would be diecast and sand cast aluminum, all way beyond my means to do.

One trick is to nickel plate, the nickel helps make it a little harder, but with these models looking like dull steel that will not work.

As I have not had any of Sid’s metal models to look at I can not say if his is softer or harder than mine.

So even though these will weight as much or slightly more that the real prop, and not have that so call looseness and hand breakable feel, they still can not be called stunt props nor will they take hard use.

One other thing about mine over Sid’s, mine goes together with screws, just as did the real prop, which means all parts are replaceable, that these models are serviceable.

Last I have taken payments and really want them done by PayPal as even is I lose my computer the records are on their system and both of us will get emails records to keep as well to we have triple records of all payments.

So it can be a more informal type "send what you have until it's paid off, then you will ship it" kind of thing.

Also trade, I am looking for MR Nautilus model and a MR Tricorder, so they can be part of the deal.

Other things as well.

I have even taken real guns in trade.

And even Cars.

Rich
_________________
I never have enough time to do all I want to do!


Last edited by racprops on Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:36 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Author Message
Serafino
Community Member


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 12
Location: N. CA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back when I was looking into possibly doing a set of sculpted masters (oversized to make up for shrinkage) for an accurate BR blaster, Rick Ross was very kind about sharing information with me about how he got his amazing results. I also found a nice lady to do the checkering on correctly-sized wood grip masters for not too much money.

Those of you who are paying attention may be beginning to realize that you can’t trust any one person to make the judgment for you about what’s an accurate blaster. That overlay I posted in the other thread was originally posted on September 28, 2006 at the RPF. It is instructive to compare certain timelines to that.

Each of you as buyers have a certain amount of power in the marketplace. Don't waste it. Band together, study and publicly record what 'accuracy' means for this prop. Wield your power. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
Once-bitten
Banned!


Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 1317

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great suggestion!

Back when I got to speak with Rick Ross on the phone I was reminded of the time I got to speak with Dick Smith. Who's Dick Smith?
He is considered by most in the professional Hollywood and world wide make-up/special FX make-up business to be the GOD-Father of modern FX make-up...just try to open any magazine that's serious about make-up effects without seeing something in it about Dick Smith.
Anyway...getting to speak to him one on one blew me away. I mean here is a guy who literally pioneered most the tehniques that are now used commonly in Movie FX in general today...and he takes the time to talk to me!?
At one point of our conversation I pointed out that I felt very fortunate to be recieving "trade secrets" from a Master such as himself and he replied that he didn't believe in "Trade Secrets". He went on to say that he believed that the only way to continue to learn and grow in life as a whole was to share and compare information, not to sit on what we know...jealously guarding our tricks, techniques and discoveries but to basically compare notes with any and everybody!
Quite a cool guy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
andy
Community Guide


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6217
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whos' Dick Smith? Laughing Little Big Man!

Good story.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
Once-bitten
Banned!


Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 1317

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my favorites!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
racprops
Community Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2450
Location: Phoenix AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine too, I love the "Loop Hole" part.

Rich
_________________
I never have enough time to do all I want to do!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Blade Runner Blaster Information and Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
BBTech Template by © 2003-04 MDesign

Problems Registering Contact: help@propsummit.com