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Rethinking Deckard's Wallet based on unused shot
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BeastMaster
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That definitely looks like a window on the right inside panel, I'm pretty sure the line in the middle is just crease. I can clearly see some sort of white card behind it. There are trifold Badge wallets that have double ID windows.
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Skin-Job
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must disagree.
The diagonal line across the centre panel throws way too much shadow to be simply a crease.

We may not be talking about the same thing.

I'm talking about the centre of the three panels of the trifold Clear ID window on the left, diagonal line/crease across the middle, two trapezoid windows/features on the right.
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Mr Webber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As time goes on I think that the wallet is not leather. It looks like one of those old velcro polyester wallets from back in the day, even has a press stud in it in one of the above pictures.
Also it doesnt make sense for Deckard to have a leather wallet, they are illegal in 2019. Thoughts?
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Buch
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Webber wrote:
As time goes on I think that the wallet is not leather. It looks like one of those old velcro polyester wallets from back in the day, even has a press stud in it in one of the above pictures.
Also it doesnt make sense for Deckard to have a leather wallet, they are illegal in 2019. Thoughts?


What about his belt and gun holster? I'm not sure that logic can be applied...
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Buch
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is VERY close to what Talyn already posted... No major changes... just a rendering of what I'm seeing...


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BeastMaster
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are my observations.






Though really would need actual screen caps frame by frame of this sequence as well as the movie sequence to do a proper analysts. I've not got a blueray player anymore to do this. Any volunteers?
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Talyn
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I could see that all being one larger window, never thought of the white card causing that color difference but it makes sense.

That would also make this a much more standard store bought wallet.

Still unsure of the material or color. While watching the final cut bluray last night, the shot where he pulls it out after killing Zhora, it almost looks brown with a black outline around the edges. Not shiny at all, like calfskin leather of suede.
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Skin-Job
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hard to tell the real colour of anything on film, once it's been graded for exposure, colour and contrast.

Could be a black wallet rubbed down to suedey brown, like an old leather jacket. Might be black which throws off a weird hue under the lights. Might actually be brown.

From experience, I don't get asked to make many suede wallets, because it doesn't wear well, and starts to look shiny and beaten up very soon.

Bearing in mind Deckard isn't new to the job, and they'd want his stuff to look worn and used, I would go for a smooth leather, sanded back to fuzz.

Karl
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BeastMaster
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we ever wanted to make a custom wallet based on these observations Skin-Job is the man to do it Wink

If it is a window on the right it looks like the compartment has been overly stretched with a thick object inside (bunch of photos?) this could be a result of deliberately ageing up the wallet which would explain why the ID card rattles around in the compartment maybe due to deliberately stretching it.

I remember them saying that Ridley wanted the most obscure items to use as props in the movie so if this is the case with the wallet chances are for finding something similar, very slim.
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Skin-Job
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The shape of the piece the two trapezoids are on bothers me. It just doesn't look like a straight-edged piece echoing the trapezoids shape, rather a stylized shape, like a reversed upper case B. If you look toward the ends where it's stitched to the wallet edge, the shape seems to level out to a straight-ish edge. But where it follows the trapezoids, it seems to be smoother, rounded, curved shapes.

Is it my eyes?
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Talyn
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, it’s definitly not straight, even at the low angle where Its mostly flat you can see that edge has a curved shape to it. And that panel looks quite stretched out which complicates it.
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joberg
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, difficult is not even the word.
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Skin-Job
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but we can do difficult Smile
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joberg
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed Skin-Job, indeed
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Replicant 13
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: CHIMING IN Reply with quote

Late to this thread, but saw this discussion and felt compelled to throw in my opinion, such as it is.

Looking at the first images here, kindly submitted by Talyn . . . and doing a quick read through some of the comments, I took the liberty to play with the images and see what I could determine. I would assume that this is just a re-purposed existing wallet from the late 70's/early 80's.
Obviously just an opinion . . .

I've lightened the images to help see a bit more detail, then outlined edges to better identify the points to discuss here:



These first two are the images that are most similar, with the badge/card window being slightly folded in on the second pic (with a point to be made later on that).

It seems obvious that the center panel is some sort of diagonal pocket (or a flap), although I might suggest that - for whatever reason - it is being held upside down(?), since its shadow seems to indicate that the pocket opening is downward facing. (I have an old nylon wallet with this same center panel diagonal pocket, for business cards - I presumed.)

The pocket on the last (right) panel is the question and I would suggest that - while it "appears" to have transparent windows, that is an illusion. Considering that it is probably leather (and aged) the worn surface is reflective, picking up the bright lights. The uneven texture, causing the appearance of transparency in (only) one of these images. Since there is a white card inserted, this only helps this illusion. I agree with Skin-job, that the picture at left verifies this, showing the reflectivity, but no indication of a split window.

Looking further, at the other two images -

There is double-stitching on some edges and in particular, the one on the pocket in question. While there also seems to be a supporting horizontal stitch (or possibly two), I think those are only re-enforcing the padding of that pocket, Again, not windows. In the second pic (above) I would suggest that some apparent seams could simply be wrinkles (light green lines) caused by the puckering of the worn leather, as Andy pointed out. But I would defer to Skin-job's trusting his expertise on the characteristics of leather.



As to the badge/card panel, as Talyn and Buch stated, it seems that the ID card is slightly smaller and lose behind the transparent panel (pic 3), defining it as a the only true window.

Have A Better One! - R13
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Buch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: CHIMING IN Reply with quote

Replicant 13 wrote:
It seems obvious that the center panel is some sort of diagonal pocket (or a flap), although I might suggest that - for whatever reason - it is being held upside down(?), since its shadow seems to indicate that the pocket opening is downward facing. (I have an old nylon wallet with this same center panel diagonal pocket, for business cards - I presumed.)

The pocket on the last (right) panel is the question and I would suggest that - while it "appears" to have transparent windows, that is an illusion. Considering that it is probably leather (and aged) the worn surface is reflective, picking up the bright lights. The uneven texture, causing the appearance of transparency in (only) one of these images. Since there is a white card inserted, this only helps this illusion. I agree with Skin-job, that the picture at left verifies this, showing the reflectivity, but no indication of a split window.


Well put. I must say that I totally agree with this.
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Replicant 13
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: AN EDUCATED GUESS Reply with quote

It is just another opinion, but in my work as a retoucher I deal with a number of images that suffer from these kind of effects. Light does funny things and depending on the surface it is easily misinterpreted. Amazing what the mind may see . . .

Once the truth is discovered, it is often surprising. So, there's a chance that I could still be totally wrong.

- R13
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andy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: AN EDUCATED GUESS Reply with quote

Replicant 13 wrote:
It is just another opinion, but in my work as a retoucher I deal with a number of images that suffer from these kind of effects. Light does funny things and depending on the surface it is easily misinterpreted. Amazing what the mind may see . . .

Once the truth is discovered, it is often surprising. So, there's a chance that I could still be totally wrong.

- R13


Agreed. There are contradictions in what I am seeing here and I need to think more on it.

Andy
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Skin-Job
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job Dave,

I agree.

I had another thought on the two trapezoidal shapes.
The edges are very sharp and clearly defined. Too sharp.
I think they may be plant-ons stuck onto the surface. It would explain their sharp outlines, the different reflective properties and the surface shine.

As you all know, it's common in the film industry to stick stuff onto found items to change their appearance, make them more 'futuristic'.

I also think the pocket they're on has a very specific edge shape, as I mentioned.

I'm also thinking the wallet is very soft, not necessarily thin, but soft. The pockets are stretched out with stuff.



Karl
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Replicant 13
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: THE GUESSING GAME Reply with quote

"Skin", et al -

In the end, we are in a guessing game. Unless someone has access to higher-rez screen caps or better stills - or someone reveals the actual wallet or a perfect candidate, it just another guess. Like the details of the Blaster before it.

To your point S-J, they may well have modified an existing wallet or made their own and roughed it up. As I recall, there have been countless design details on commercially-available products, from perfume bottles to ballpoint pens. In my memory I seem to recall (or imagine?) wallets and purses that had foam or even cardboard inserts sewn in to add strength or perceived quality to surfaces. I assumed the sharpness was just stitching.

That is why I suggest that the two odd-shaped areas might be just that. But it's not uncommon to see greebles attached or added to props or models, especially back then, so your guess is every bit as valid.



- R13
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