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Yep, another Voight-Kampff project
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Hellnbak
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Yep, another Voight-Kampff project Reply with quote

Hi to all, and thanks for allowing me to join this amazing forum.

I figured I might as well throw my hat into the Voight-Kampff replica ring, so here goes.

Mine is not a physical build, but a 3D model. It is a long way from being finished, but when it is I will make the model freely available for download for anybody that's interested. Feel free to do what you will with it. Maybe somebody would be interested in using it for a 3D printed model. I myself know nothing about 3D printing, but will gladly make any changes that might be necessary for that process. It could also be used as an aid for those aspiring to build a physical VK

So, some pics of what I've got so far (at least I hope you will see the pics, I've been having real problems with this but I think I've got it figured out) --













Here is what it looked like this morning. As you can see I've made some progress



Some exploded views. Each part is modeled as a separate component. Components can be combined into a single component, as needed.





An X-ray shot. Not really useful, but sometimes interesting



Some monochrome shots. This is what I mainly use when working on the model. I just added some colors and projected some images onto the screens to help me visualize how it's going







Much work left to be done, obviously. Many things missing yet, and undoubtedly there are many things that I got wrong, and that's why I'm hoping to get some help and advice from all the knowledgeable people here. Any suggestions, comments, criticizms are welcome.

Think of it like building a Voight-Kampff by remote control!

A little about myself. I retired from the Air Force back in '89 and found the joy of 3D modeling about 7 years ago when I found Trimble SketchUp, a fantastic (FREE!) program. There is a paid "Pro" version, but it is very expensive and geared towards architects. I will gladly offer advice and assistance to anyone who wants to download and install SU to be able to use my model. You will be able to do all sorts of things with it, make any changes to it that you want.

This project is proving a bit difficult due to the lack of detail in many of the available reference photos. I have taken many scrrenshots of the blu-ray, ran them through several enhancers but no program can bring out details that just aren't there.
I am all too familiar with the difficulties involved with accurately modeling something with limited reference photos. Several years ago I began concentrating on modeling one-off, one-of-a-kind creations, mainly vehicles. Some of them go back several hundred years, and the original no longer exists, with only have a handful of very grainy b&w photos. In some instances I have been forced to use photos of replica builds, if I could find a replica that seemed accurate enough. I don't like to do that but it's the only alternative to just using my imagination to "fill in the blanks". During my research I did read that the original VK does in fact still exist, in Ridley's office in London. Not sure if anyone pursued that rumor. I say a group of us go over there and camp outside his door until he lets us in to see for ourselves Laughing

I really want to make this a truly accurate representation of the actual movie prop. With your help I think we can do it.

And yes, I know that this is not the "popular" version of VK. Not sure why everyone seems to prefer the U.S. version, but rest easy, I have also started work that too.

Well, I have a ton of questions for you all, but this is turning into a really long post so I'll close for now.

Steve
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joberg
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, so far so good and yes, the original V.K. is the most popular because of the fact that it was the original prop built in 3 days by the prop team.

You seemed to have mix both (U.S/U.K) in your render: you've managed to squeeze the V.K. logo between the LED bar and the big screen (bottom left).
You've added the platform under the bellows (trying to visually mimic what these were doing on the original prop: i.e. rising above the big screen and its housing).

You've added an additional fin in the trench (only 5 in there + 5 small one at the bottom)...
As for the arm, the main aluminium part (the one with the 2 pulleys) is too short. Since the half of the rod has to slide inside it. you'll have to length it.
When the rod is half inside that arm, then the entire head/eye parts will be snug into the trench.
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amish
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice! There can never be too many V.K. machines
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Hellnbak
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joberg wrote:
Steve, so far so good and yes, the original V.K. is the most popular because of the fact that it was the original prop built in 3 days by the prop team.


While I knew from reading the forum posts it was the most popular, I didn't realize just how popular it was. Nobody seems to be interested in the U.K. version at all. Well, I'm adaptable.

I removed the screen housing and inserted part of the shape that I had blocked out for the U.S. VK. And removed the platform under the bellows.



Then I blended it into the original model...



[/img]



Unfortunately, all the people who viewed my thread and summarily dismissed it probably won't look at it again to see that I have switched to the other version.


joberg wrote:
You seemed to have mix both (U.S/U.K) in your render: you've managed to squeeze the V.K. logo between the LED bar and the big screen (bottom left).
You've added the platform under the bellows (trying to visually mimic what these were doing on the original prop: i.e. rising above the big screen and its housing).

You've added an additional fin in the trench (only 5 in there + 5 small one at the bottom)...


Thanks, this is the type of info I need. Deleted the logo, but I'm not sure what you are saying about the platform under the bellows. While I 'm sure it's not accurate (could not find any information about it, other that they did add a platform to make the bellows more visible behind the larger screen housing), as I said, I'm not sure what you saying there.

As for the fins, do you mean that for some reason they took away a fin in the U.K. version?

joberg wrote:
As for the arm, the main aluminium part (the one with the 2 pulleys) is too short. Since the half of the rod has to slide inside it. you'll have to length it.
When the rod is half inside that arm, then the entire head/eye parts will be snug into the trench.


Yeah, I know that the arm is not accurate. I only did a quick job of it as a "placeholder", so the eyepiece wouldn't just be hanging in the air Laughing

Anyhow, I'll wait and see if switching to the "popular" version generates any interest in this project.

Thanks again for the input, very much appreciated.

Steve
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Hellnbak
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amish wrote:
Very nice! There can never be too many V.K. machines


Thanks very much!
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joberg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Hellnback, 6 fins in the trench + 6 small ones on the floor of the trench...see Colin's V.K. project.

The big screen has to be smaller in height, since you removed the platform under the bellows.
The top of the big screen should only protrude from the housing by 3 mm and topped by the Voight-Kampff plate (2 mm).
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TM
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really beautiful work!

Tony
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Hellnbak
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this is disappointing. I'm not sure what the problem is, other than starting off with the much less popular version of the Voight-Kampff. I thought that even though most cannot have a physical VK model, at least this way they could have an accurate 3D model.

As I stated, this model is in it's early stages. I like to make my models as accurate and as detailed as possible. I never render my models, I just painstakingly create and project textures onto them, and I never sell my models, even though I have had numerous offers. I do it because I enjoy it, and I was hoping to share the final result with those here that share my appreciation of the incredible Blade Runner.

Before I throw in the towel, I'd like to take this opportunity to show you a few of my other models based on various movies and TV, to maybe give you an idea of what I hope to achieve with the Voight-Kampff. Some of them are not really finished, but anyhow......

The time machine, from George Pal's "The Time Machine" 1960








Professor Fate's Hannibal-8 from "The Great Race" 1964










The False Maria robot from Fritz Lang's 1927 silent masterpiece "Metropolis"








The Herkimer Battle Jitney from "Mystery Men" 1999








The Wagon Queen Family Truckster from "National Lampoon's Vacation" 1983

Before ....



and after




and The Munster Coach from the TV Series "The Munsters" 1964-1966







As I said, I have no idea why my project is being shunned while others receive enthusiastic support. I was hoping for your input to ensure that this model would become as accurate and complete as possible, but without that input there is no need for me to continue here.

For those that have provided input, my heartfelt thanks and appreciation.

Steve
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bwade wanna
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You, sir, are a phenomenally talented and gifted 3D modeler. At first I thought: he must be using Creo Parametric or SolidWorks. But Sketchup Pro? Outstranding, bro!
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful 3-D models you've got there Hellnback.

As for the V.K.: there's only a hand full of people obsessed by that prop (the first one done by Mike Fink, Mark Stetson and Co.)

Then there's another small group who likes the U.K. V.K. prop (still, not enough pics/info about that one Crying or Very sad ).

All in all, not an easy prop to do. I've been researching and communicating with the original people who worked on it, and still, after all those years, it still remain some sort of a Holly Grail.

Don't despair, I feel your pain and don't give up; some of your rendering are far more complicated than the V.K.


Wink
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LearnByMaking
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing work! I'm sorry I missed your initial posts, I don't look at the forum everyday and I just came across them now.

What you've done looks beautiful, I'll have to look through this thread to see why you feel "shunned". I think I speak for many in that your rendering and artistry are great.

Since the original dimensions, plans, and/or blueprints are gone (if they ever existed, in a finished form) we all have opinions are what they "must have been".

Personally, I know I haven't found a complete build that fully agrees with how I think it should be (including my own - which is why dimensions keep changing).

Please do not feel unappreciated for your amazing work! I think we all just want to tweak it to match what we think the original was (and that keeps evolving as new information, pictures, etc are discovered).
For example, Joberg has worked on the VK for a long time - he didn't make "just one". Like any other build, this is an iterative process - we all look for feedback to improve on our work.

Please keep up what you are doing - what may seem like criticism is more likely encouragement to further improve your rendering to reflect what others have discovered.

From those of us who have an obsession with this machine - I hope you continue your work!
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Hellnbak
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bwade wanna wrote:
You, sir, are a phenomenally talented and gifted 3D modeler. At first I thought: he must be using Creo Parametric or SolidWorks. But Sketchup Pro? Outstranding, bro!


I appreciate the kind words, bwade, but I lay no claim to being a great 3D modeler, just an old fart who found something I really enjoy and try my best to do my best. There are any number of 3D modelers out there that put my work to shame. And I didn't post those pics fishing for compliments, I only wanted to show that when I tackle a project I make every effort to make the result as complete and accurate as I possibly can, as I hope do with my Voight-Kampff model.

I don't use SketchUp Pro, just the free version. As I mentioned earlier, the Pro version is very expensive and is mainly geared towards architecture, which doesn't really interest me.
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Hellnbak
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joberg wrote:
Beautiful 3-D models you've got there Hellnback.

As for the V.K.: there's only a hand full of people obsessed by that prop (the first one done by Mike Fink, Mark Stetson and Co.)

Then there's another small group who likes the U.K. V.K. prop (still, not enough pics/info about that one Crying or Very sad ).

All in all, not an easy prop to do. I've been researching and communicating with the original people who worked on it, and still, after all those years, it still remain some sort of a Holly Grail.

Don't despair, I feel your pain and don't give up; some of your rendering are far more complicated than the V.K.


Wink


Thanks joberg. I'll hang in there, probably over-reacted. I get cranky sometimes Rolling Eyes

I've been very impressed by your work with researching the VK. I know it must be very frustrating for you. You seem to be the go-to man here for the VK, so I'm hoping to pick your brain to move forward with my model. I'll post some pics of it with dimensions so maybe you (and others) can help me tweak it. I have run many of the photos through a number of good enhancement programs, but the dark areas just don't have any info to enhance. So for those "black" areas I hope to get some sort of consensus on what people believe might be in there, and go with that.

Maybe someday some really good detailed photos will be discovered, or some movie-prop accurate diagrams, or even the real VK machine itself might turn up somewhere (maybe on E-bay, can you imagine what the bidding would be like for that?!!)

I really appreciate your posts, and I hope you will bear with me, I have a tone of questions to ask.

Steve
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Hellnbak
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LearnByMaking wrote:
Amazing work! I'm sorry I missed your initial posts, I don't look at the forum everyday and I just came across them now.

What you've done looks beautiful, I'll have to look through this thread to see why you feel "shunned". I think I speak for many in that your rendering and artistry are great.

Since the original dimensions, plans, and/or blueprints are gone (if they ever existed, in a finished form) we all have opinions are what they "must have been".

Personally, I know I haven't found a complete build that fully agrees with how I think it should be (including my own - which is why dimensions keep changing).

Please do not feel unappreciated for your amazing work! I think we all just want to tweak it to match what we think the original was (and that keeps evolving as new information, pictures, etc are discovered).
For example, Joberg has worked on the VK for a long time - he didn't make "just one". Like any other build, this is an iterative process - we all look for feedback to improve on our work.

Please keep up what you are doing - what may seem like criticism is more likely encouragement to further improve your rendering to reflect what others have discovered.

From those of us who have an obsession with this machine - I hope you continue your work!



Hey, LearnByMaking, thanks for the encouragement. As I explained to Joberg, I probably just over-reacted.

Yeah, I realize from looking through the forum posts here that many people have differing opinions on how the machine should look. For those that might be interested in downloading the 3D model, I could create different versions to satisfy everbody's ideas of what it should look like. But what I'm hoping for here is to come up with a version that the majority would agree to be the most accurate possible with the information we have.

The thing about working with a 3D model, it can be changed to fit current information much more easily than an actual physical build.

I welcome any and all criticism of my work - that's why I'm here, to get input from all those who have ideas and information that might help me improve my model.

Again, I appreciate your kind words, and hope to see more of your input as this project progresses.

Steve
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TM
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,

I think you did over-react, and perhaps misunderstood. What you may have perceived as negative comments were, I think, suggestions for improvement.

People here are rather obsessive, and strive for perfection, as impossible that may be. But that is good because it encourages excellence.

I think you do a great job! Not just with the VK machine, but also with the Time Machine.

Please do not accept the previously posted suggestions as criticisms. Consider instead that it is an attempt at perfection.

Tony
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Hellnbak
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TM wrote:
Steve,

I think you did over-react, and perhaps misunderstood. What you may have perceived as negative comments were, I think, suggestions for improvement.

People here are rather obsessive, and strive for perfection, as impossible that may be. But that is good because it encourages excellence.

I think you do a great job! Not just with the VK machine, but also with the Time Machine.

Please do not accept the previously posted suggestions as criticisms. Consider instead that it is an attempt at perfection.

Tony



Tony,

I appreciate your comments, but please don't think I was bothered by anything anybody said.

I have always welcomed criticisms of any of my work, whether it be it's accuracy, it's appearance, my methods, or general ineptitude as a modeler on my part. It all boils down to using those criticisms as opportunities to improve my work.

Now, if somebody were to tell me that, say, the Time Machine should have been painted fire=engine red and have racing stripes, I believe that I might have disagreed with that criticism Laughing

No, what bothered me was just the opposite -- the lack of criticism, or comments of any sort. A lot of people were looking, but not commenting. To my tired old mind that meant that I was some sort of presumptuous noobie not worthy of taking notice of, or something like that. It felt like I was not going to get the feedback I need to make my model as accurate as I hope to.

Anyhow, yes, I did over react, and I apologize for that.

Steve
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Hellnbak
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been spending a lot of time today going over all of the VK threads here and at RPF, and my head is swimming from trying to make sense of all the discussions about every aspect of the machine. So much info, so many differing opinions, and it all changes from thread to thread!

To make it simpler I have captured each page of each thread as a scrolling window, as both a png and PDF image, so I could study them without having to be online.

I have taken my model back to a basic shape for purposes of getting the various shapes and dimensions as accurate as possible. When I'm satisfied that I've accomplished that then all the rounding and smoothing and whatnot will take place, but, just like building a house, it has to have a good foundatiion or everything else is pointless.











I have no doubt that there are things wrong here, but I'm sure that with input from those that are much more VK-smart than I it can be made right. That mysterious and elusive trench will have to come together from a consensus, and I will have to resign myself that it will never be correct. But one can only work with the information available.

I will be asking for opinions on the various dimensions, and, again, given the lack of proper diagrams or blueprints, those will have to be determined by consensus. I don't hope to get all the dimensions pictured here, of course, and at this point I will not be asking for any, not until I have sifted through the forum threads and mined all the information I can.





For now, please feel free to offer suggestions on what needs changing as far as the overall shape of the machine is concerned. The area under the bellows and in the trench is still a grey area for me, so any help you can provide would be much appreciated.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Hellnbak,

Here's how I'm approaching my Voight Kampff project.

I decided to scrap all my previous attempts and use the blueprints Propstore posted.

I'm taking it on good faith that they are genuine and therefore the proportions are reasonably correct.

I have drawn many incarnations of this machine at various sizes but I always keep coming back to one size.

430mm wide.

The reason the machine ends up this wide is to do with the size of the razor foil. The foil determines the size of the head assembly, which then affects the rest of the machine.

I took the clearest/flattest images Propstore posted and lined them up as plan and elevations in photoshop. I then enlarged them all so the front elevation was 430mm wide.

I then imported this image into my CAD software and stated drawing over the top of it. Making adjustments and educated guesses as I went along.

To draw the head and arm assembly I scaled up frame grabs of the head and the photo of the rear of the machine Propstore posted with the blueprints.

All the time cross referencing these with with the other photos that are on this site.

I will also say joberg's build photos have been incredibly helpful.

Whether you choose to do the UK of US version the base of the machine is the same.

Most of the measurements you require are in those blueprints. But you have to decide what size you believe the machine to be.

By what you have already drawn, you have a passion for the project. I think a fully rendered CG model will be a good addition to this forum.


Colin
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Hellnbak
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin,

I had studied those prints from PropShop, and to be perfectly honest I didn't have a lot of faith in them. To me they appear to be more or less just sketches, and don't seem to have been drawn in relation to one other, just sketches for visual reference or something.

But I took your advice and decided to see how they worked out.





And things didn't line up very well at all. I didn't expect the lines to actually intersect, but some of them were way off.



I have a question. It seems to show the back half of the right hand side to be much lower. I've never seen this in any of the models, and can't really figure out why they would even do this. I have scoured the reference photos of the original prop, but none of them really show the right hand side well enough to tell anything. As far as I can tell, the only purpose for this is to allow the bellows to angle down, but why they would need to do that is beyond me. Also, another reason I don't have a lot of faith in these drawings is that it seems to show that they were planning, or at least considering, to have the arm pivot from the other side of the trench.



I could be wrong, I frequently am, but I think they might be earlier ideas, and they were changed as the actual machine was built. Which in my mind puts their value as reference photos in question.

This is probably just an old fart being difficult, but I would value your feelings on these things.

Steve
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellnback,

I know where you are coming from.

I have those doubts too.

But I think these plans are a great starting point.


I think these drawings are the closest they got to drawing blueprints.

They took Syd Mead's sketches, broke it down into the elements they needed and started mocking it up.

When they decided what monitors etc they were going to use someone produced this drawing as a guide.

From the pictures I have here's a very rough evolution!



I don't think those lines on the right indicate the arm was going to pivot from that side. They could be the angle of the head resting in the trench. Also on the left there is clearly what could be a pivot point for the arm.

The back of the machine where the bellows lie is lower than the upper cover. The bellows in my opinion do angle down as in the blueprints.

Here's some shots by Mark Stetson. You can see the differences in heights.





Colin
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