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Aeidotronics



Joined: 27 Dec 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:20 am    Post subject: Spinner Ruminations Reply with quote

Hello! First post here. Very Happy
Long, but read it anyway!

I am having a great deal of trouble finding any information/discussion on two points surrounding "Spinner" vehicles, so figured this was a good spot.

I have always wondered, and now the questions are coming to a head because they are relevant information for Blade Runner-themed mod content I am creating for the game Cities: Skylines.

[1] Is "Spinner" a make (like Ford) or a type (like pickup truck or sedan)?
The logo as seen in the original film, and lack of other logos or brands mentioned, always suggested to me that it was a brand. HOWEVER, everywhere I read about BR flying cars ALL of them are called "Spinners" - suggesting it is not brand-specific, OR that it represents that sort of brand name favoritism over a product, in the way that tissues are called Kleenex and adhesive bandages are called Band-Aids.
Wikipedia seems to be in the 'it's a generic term' school Wink

The question gets cloudier now with 2049 being out.

All flying cars are again called "Spinner" but now the original logo is not to be found, and indeed; Officer K's car is labeled as a Peugeot.
There is also a large 'Spinner Limo' vehicle and 'Luv's Spinner' - the latter of which is actually labeled as a Lamborghini in some concept art.
2049 has one last "Spinner" that I can only find referenced as an "escort" which (from the limited images of it you can get) actually resembles the original movie's cars enough to my eye to make me think THAT would be a newer model from the original brand.


[2] How can any of these "Spinners" turn when ground driving???

Syd's design has the front wheels emerge from covers that pivot upwards allowing the tires to drop to ground level. BUT they barely clear the compartment where they come from when they come out; suggesting that they have very little room to pivot left or right without hitting the body. (And they can't possibly have any shocks stuffed in there either!) Shocked

I think perhaps it would need to turn like a tank: where both tires on one side spin in the same direction, opposite to the other side, making the car spin (har har) at the center point. If so, that would hardly be conducive to doing any sort of normal street traffic driving.

Again, the water muddies with the addition of 2049.

The Peugeot Spinner only has the one large rear tire, and the mechanics I can glean don't look like it can pivot for turns. 3-wheel cars are notoriously terrible drives, an an attempt at tank-drive like that would likely drag around or fall over. The two front wheels again emerge from the body when in 'ground-mode' but on this design they DEFINITELY cannot pivot to turn, as they are locked vertically in a narrow body with no discernible hinge or track where a panel could lift up and allow the wheel more room. This model is also shown 'parked' in the movie with the tires down and no panels raised like they would be on the original Police Spinner.

Luv's Spinner actually doesn't have wheels at all, if you're curious. I guess they figured rich people's sports cars wouldn't bother driving on the dirty roads with the plebeians.

The Spinner Limo/transport prop does not appear to have any wheels, either.

The only design, again, that seems to reference the original Spinner is the Escort Spinner I mentioned with the previous question.
Shots from the studio of it have the chunkier 'arms' in the front, with what appear to be hinges for panels to pivot up and let wheels out. I can't find any images with the panels raised (but I wouldn't be surprised that this was because the prop simply didn't call for it to ever park or drive).


And don't tell me they use the jet systems or anti-grav to make them turn on the ground - that would drag the tires around, flex the axles/mounts, and blow all kinds of water, trash, pedestrians, and other cars off the street!
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Bwood
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously, you have not taken the required "leap of faith" that allows these vehicles to navigate as needed within the context of a fantasy film.
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Aeidotronics



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I've found that Blade Runner has some of the lowest requirements of "suspend your disbelief" I can think of from sci-fi.

They get the technology level of 2019 way off, anti-gravity will probably never be a thing, and Atari and Pan-Am aren't viable future brands Laughing

The original Spinner based on Syd Mead's work are pretty well thought out and the blueprints are very detailed. It looks more 'retro future' than the 2049 cars, but looks more like it could possibly drive on an actual road.

I think, actually, the original filmmakers deliberately avoided close-ups of the Spinner with the wheel panels 'up' and the tires exposed.
I remember reading an interview with one of the guys who worked on the cars, and one of the full-size cars he describes going in and cutting out all the shocks and other mechanics from the front wheels.
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joberg
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that, for the movie, those cars were built "simply", hence the cutting of the front shocks. I think that a horizontal shock system, build into the lateral housing holding the front wheels could be possible...that being said, the production didn't have enough time to engineer that stuff (and the budget to boot) Wink
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Pierre990429
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice post, Aeidotronics.

I'm not sure spinners have anti-G technology. No need to take off with all these "jet" effects if it was the case.
Sure, it's not clear how the propulsion works when they fly. And then we have the big "zeppelin" (advertising for the off-world colonies) in the first movie : what's keeping it in the sky ?

EDIT : my bad : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinner_%28Blade_Runner%29

"Designer Mead has described the spinner as an aerodyne a vehicle which directs air downward to create lift, though press kits for the film stated that the spinner was propelled by three engines: "conventional internal combustion, jet and anti-gravity".
Well, I don't find this very logic (and contradictory ?). You risk to injure people with the "jets", so why not only use anti-G for take-off, IF it's available ?
For "my" canon, I consider Syd Mead's explanation as the "real" one. And indeed, jet engines will probably make the vehicle spin, depending on the different forces and the gravity center... like the space shuttles when they took off.

Do they have faster-than-light tech to get to these colonies ? I guess no one bothered to think about it.
(I dunno how it's in the book, which is I know quite different - only thing is that I didn't read it)

Good catch about the wheels. In the first movie, we never see a spinner moving on the ground. In the sequel, I think we see K's Peugeot doing some distance while not flying, no ? (can't remember now)

I'm French, so it was funny to see Peugeot's lion in the car's display
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Aeidotronics



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!
Yeah, I obsess over Syd's stuff to have seen the anti-grav ideas. Smile
In my mind, I think it makes sense for the anti-grav to essentially just be providing "neutral buoyancy", as a submarine would use underwater.
The jets cause the movement, but anti-grav provides the hover.
This sounds correct to me based on the scene where the Spinner cop is hassling Deckard in his sedan: there is no real 'jetting' from the cop who is hovering, until he needs to shoot upwards and leave.

2049 definitely requires there to be anti-grav simply based on those giant garbage dump vehicles, in my opinion. It is also also mentioned in at least one "poster" I've found where someone has attempted to show cross-sections of the original vehicle (I don't think it's particularly good, though).

I always figured the blimp was fairly low-tech just because basically as a giant billboard or propaganda machine, it would be desirable for it to be slow and lumbering.

There are some pretty cool super-miniature Spinners made for the buildings of the original movies.
These have the wheel panels in the 'up' position, as they are parked on the ground around some kind of hanger or Spinner hub.

I need to watch 2049 again, but I'm not sure if K drives on the ground, either.
He certainly would have no problem driving in a perfectly straight line Wink

I begin to think that designers figured the ground-driving capabilities were really just for ferrying in and out of parking spots, and not for getting around at all.
(It would be nice if someone would cater to my turbo-nerd self and just SAY so).


I can't think of any mention of the space travel tech, except that LA International Airport is now an Off-World hub (where Deckard was being taken to be sent off for torture).
All I know is that attack ships can catch on fire.



Nobody seems to have input on whether "Spinner" is a company or category of vehicle!


Last edited by Aeidotronics on Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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joberg
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeppelin are coming back and are pretty cheap to operate (could be remote also) and can stay in the air for longer period than other type of ships or drones...and with those big ad screens on every sides, the weight is less of a factor. Rain or shine, the blimp rules Wink
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Pierre990429
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I forgot about the garbage dumpers.

Antigrav felt just strange to me because it was not "matching" the rest of the (rather low-) displayed tech. (and in our real world that's something totally out of our reach) Here the "generator" even fits in a car, without needing a nuclear powerplant to make it run !

I suppose that the "spinner" logo on the vehicles referred maybe at first to the vehicle itself, but since K drives a Peugeot, you could also say that it's the logo of the licensed "spinner" tech (like "compact-disc" or "dolby" that you could see on various brands of electronics).

I think that Denis Villeneuve really "got" Blade Runner right and did a very good sequel. I know many people won't agree but this is my opinion.
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Aeidotronics



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you know, just put some banana peels and beer cans into your Mr. Fusion, phase-pulse it with your tachyon array and voila: anti-grav. You can dispose of the waste dark matter by sub-space annealing it into your pocket dimension before the Higgs Bosons reach peak density.
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Pierre990429
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will this be enough to build the Xeelee ring ? Razz
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Aeidotronics



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woah, woah. Let's keep this P.K. Dick universe.
Baxter is a madman.

Wish I could engage more with the other nerds about the Spinner name Sad
I think when I release my models I'll go with the brand-bias idea, unless new information comes to light.

I.e. "Spinner" is the original vehicle company, but after that all flying cars of that two-arm style are called that, regardless of make.
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pheyos
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always wondered about the "Purge" warning before the Spinner first takes off in the film. If the car was using VTOL-like technology I can imagine an engine building pressure to achieve take off. I'm no rocket scientist, though.
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Pierre990429
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "purge" is a Ridley Scott thing. You can see it in Alien, just before Ripley escapes with the shuttle.
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pheyos
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre990429 wrote:
The "purge" is a Ridley Scott thing. You can see it in Alien, just before Ripley escapes with the shuttle.
Thanks! Not a Syd Mead thing then.
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Aeidotronics



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off hand: just got the Blade Runner 2019 comic from Titan Comics.

Their police spinner art is WAY off. Wink
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joberg
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Tyrell's Corp. has the monopoly of technologies used in the Spinner Police Vehicule (article #128; Blade Runner Units only).

The ignition system has to work following these exact instructions:

1)Each Spinner is fitted with a key/password to start/stop the engine.

2) Iris scan of the main driver is also required.

3) Engine is now on.

The Tyrrel's encryption code cannot be hacked even with a Quantum Cascading Key (Q.C.K).

Citizen violating the law, i.e.: stealing clearly marked Police/Blade Runner vehicules or attempting to break the Q.C.K. code will be arrested and shot on sight.

Misuse of key/password/encryption code by Blade Runner Unit Personnel or any Police Force Unit will result in arrest and immediate termination."
Wink Wink
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Aeidotronics



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that from something?
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joberg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, my imagination concerning the BR Universe and what could be possible Wink
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Aeidotronics



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got at least one new photo of the 4-door "escort spinner" from 2049 in the 'art of' book I just got.

Also found a Syd Mead painting that shows the suspension on his original design's front wheels (and maybe a turning hinge?).

Might post some pictures if i can figure out where to host the files...
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Skin-Job
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought.
Could the Spinner steer from the rear wheels, like a Forklift?

That way the front wheels remain straight.
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