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Deckard Wallet Discussion (New Discoveries Inside from DVD)
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philippes
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:31 am    Post subject: Deckard Wallet Discussion (New Discoveries Inside from DVD) Reply with quote

Also, for those who have questioned the originality of the Deckard wallet project source material:

V (1983)
Tom Southwell .... production illustrator (uncredited)

Blade Runner (1982)
Tom Southwell .... production illustrator

We're all entitled to make screen-used mistakes based on the often limited material we have on hand at any given time (ask original prop collectors about this). But my sources are legitimate.

Phil

(Edit: I edited the title of this thread to keep inline with the new discoveries being made from the new DVD set)-Amish
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spinner44.com
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoke to Southwell several times. He said there was no badge in the wallet. Spoke to another inside source who stated the same. Waiting for a reply on info from a third higher source about the bottle and the badge.

Also, others I spoke with that have been out to Southwell's stated that the ID's they saw resembled the WorldCon variety. Although I'm sure you are aware he has quite a cache of BR production art still in his possession.

Sorry Phil, but right now I just don't believe it.

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philippes
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spinner44.com wrote:
Spoke to Southwell several times. He said there was no badge in the wallet. Spoke to another inside source who stated the same. Waiting for a reply on info from a third higher source about the bottle and the badge.

Also, others I spoke with that have been out to Southwell's stated that the ID's they saw resembled the WorldCon variety. Although I'm sure you are aware he has quite a cache of BR production art still in his possession.

Sorry Phil, but right now I just don't believe it.

-

Time will tell. Time will tell...

Phil
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We're all entitled to make screen-used mistakes based on the often limited material we have on hand at any given time (ask original prop collectors about this).


Absolutely agree, but what the heck does "screen used mistake" mean exactly?

We're also entitled to be sceptical, cynical, and smart alec about it if we want to be.

In all seriousness, I was just trying to say that there is no reason to stop looking for it as a found item, even prop masters can be wrong too. It has been a quarter century and all.
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Once-bitten
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALL good points and I for one am just plain excited that everyone is keeping the discussion alive...and that Phil is here! I've been wanting Phil to pop by for a while.

Loyal---The new bottle sketch is AMAZING, thanks for taking the time to do that.

Keep those Interest Statements coming guy's!

http://brwhiskeybottle.once-bitten.com
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amish
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I split this topic from the Johnny Walker Bottle thread as it really deserves its own thread and I did not want the Johnny Walker Bottle thread to go to far off.

If anyone has any problems with me splitting this from the JW thread, please pm me and I will gladly discuss it with you and take all points into consideration.

Thanks!

Tom
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BeastMaster
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

philippes wrote:
Also, for those who have questioned the originality of the Deckard wallet project source material:

V (1983)
Tom Southwell .... production illustrator (uncredited)

Blade Runner (1982)
Tom Southwell .... production illustrator

We're all entitled to make screen-used mistakes based on the often limited material we have on hand at any given time (ask original prop collectors about this). But my sources are legitimate.

Phil


I don't get it Confused
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philippes
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following prop was used in the "V" mini series from 1983:



The ID I reproduced in the Deckard wallet project is on a wedge just like that one. I never saw this prop until well after the project was underway. It simply provided additional proof (to me) that the source material was original.

Phil
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amish
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil,

The link you provided was not working, so I uploaded an image I had of the same image and hosted it here so that it would work. If this is not the correct image, please feel free to edit it.

Thanks!

Tom
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oldzey
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once-bitten wrote:
ALL good points and I for one am just plain excited that everyone is keeping the discussion alive...and that Phil is here! I've been wanting Phil to pop by for a while.


Me too - glad you're here, Phil! Very Happy

Regards,
oldzey
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BeastMaster
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey phil, yes I'm familiar with this (from reading another exausting wallet validity thread Wink )

Also in that thread it had been settled that the wallet project ID isn't the same as the screen-used one in the movie. It's also been debated that the V image isn't reliable enough to prove this card is wedge-shaped which alone doesn't really support the notion that the wallet project ID is a genuine BR prop/replica.
I think when this image was released people jumped to the conclusion that it was wedge shaped plastic as the image is quite decieving, but the bottom right corner looks more like the green paper pealing off a grey card base.

It also shows areas that are the same as the worldcon prop ID and completely different to the wallet project ID. Also there is that whole debate about the "constructed" photo on the wallet project ID, but I wont go into that
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bbabich
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There Phil goes again... here to add unnecessary mystique to Blade Runner. Please don't even start with your wallet project, it was a total sham.

Between Southwell's own account and that of others who I have met, I am very confident in the position that no badge existed in the Screen Used wallet.

-Bryan
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philippes
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly believe the wallet I reproduced is an original. And I think time will prove this.

On the other hand, I agree that the ID in the wallet I was given is not the one used on-screen in the Zhora chase scene.

The apartment card isn't a match either.

Regardless, none of the components were made out of whole cloth, and it's clear by looking at each one of them that they contain all the fundamental elements of the screen-used versions (where seen). The details I'm talking about were discovered well after the wallet was released.

Either I'm the biggest and cleverest shyster there ever was, or I'm telling the truth. I think my reputation in the community for nearly 10 years should provide enough evidence to prove I'm not a liar.

I never have nor ever will rip anyone off.

I've done nothing but give to the Blade Runner community over the years, and have never been in it for the money. Otherwise, I'd be selling my Blade Runner fonts instead of giving them away.

Phil


Last edited by philippes on Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Once-bitten
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one appreciate your fonts Phil...as my avatar shows! Very Happy
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
glad you're here, Phil!


I'm glad you're here too Phil, and would like to add a welcome for you to the boards.

WELCOME.

Regardless of the wallet, or folks feelings about your credibility, you're P.O.V. is always an interesting addition to any blade runner conversation, and you keep things far from boring.
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philippes
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you like the fonts.

Thanks for the welcome, Noeland.

I've emailed Jesper in Sweden about the "V" ID, but his email bounced back. His site and his email aren't working right now. I'll continue trying to contact him to confirm whether or not his "V" ID is on a wedge.

I've emailed Art Shippee a few times in order to get independent verification in regards to the wallet badge, but he never writes back.

Phil
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oldzey
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


Thanks to Eagle for the awesome photo!

For those new to Blade Runner and/or visitors to this thread:

philippes is the "S" in The C,S & T (Coyle, Steinschneider & Tate) Worldcon Blaster pictured above.

Essential reading about how the BR Blaster prop was researched:
http://props.steinschneider.com/blade_runner/bldrunbl.htm
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BeastMaster
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep good to have you here phil Smile

I guess this thread and the basis of many others like it, is debating the authenticity of the source material of wallet project.

The problem is that appart from the vidphon card and wallet itself, none of the items are actually seen in the movie. It's also a shame that the supplier of the original material chooses to remain illusive and isn't around to back up any history or information as to how they came into possesion of the source material.

I have no intention of questioning your reputation phil, just hopefully bring more insite on the mystery that shrouds the wallet project as I've been fascinated with it's origin since the begining.
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philippes
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was a pure prop replicator and did all of my research independently, things were much easier. As time passed, and I came to know more people in the entertainment industry and high-end collectors of original props, I slowly began to experience conflicts of interests.

The prop replication hobby is quite socialistic with capitalistic modifications. In other words, we'd all like to make a small profit on the information we glean, but we share what we know and are relatively quickly copied. Since we ourselves don't really respect the intellectual property of others in a purely capitalistic sense, neither do those around us. Nonetheless, our currency is the admiration we obtain from our peers for our discoveries and the occasional monetary remuneration.

On the other hand, collectors of original props and entertainment professionals live in a highly competitive and capitalistic system. Therefore, it behooves them to keep secrets in order to maintain a competitive advantage. Entertainment professionals do this because their employers' products are dependant on secrecy to preserve an edge in the marketplace, while original prop collectors are always trying to one-up and outspend each other. In either case, pride and/or profit are the motivating factors.

Consequently, the impetus in both paradigms is essentially the same, but the underlying mechanics are different.

So it's a constant battle between two sides that have a lot in common. Unfortunately, prop replicators have contempt for the proprietary and harbor feelings of entitlement, while those who guard original prop information feel a sense of ownership and are offended when replicators share and use data indiscriminately. They get particularly upset when others profit from free details they provide or something unique they own is copied and widely distributed.

As a result, collecting original props and archiving prop history from entertainment professionals is relatively incompatible with the replica prop hobby. And navigating both worlds is somewhat akin to paddling upstream in a lead canoe. At least, for me it is. That's why I no longer venture that far from original movie props anymore these days.

Prop replicas have become somewhat commoditized. And although some could argue that certain things offered represent limited editions of individual pieces of art, nothing will ever replace the production original a reproduction is honoring.

The Deckard wallet project was never meant for public dissemination. That wasn’t because there was anything to hide. It was simply because the project was hatched by a prop replicator at the time working for original prop collectors. But when details of the wallet were released publicly by one or more people that straddle the two prop worlds (which have fuzzy lines of demarcation) prop replicators were upset that more information couldn’t be released and the original prop collectors behind the project were incensed that anything got out at all. Accordingly, replicators clamored for more data while the original prop collectors clammed up. That put me in a very strange situation.

Interestingly, the only people who vociferously complained about the project were people who’d never bought anything in the first place. And the few people who were refunded were individuals who'd only purchased a few components or purchased the whole set and decided they couldn't spend the money for one reason or another very soon after the buy.

Prop replicators were the loudest complainers, while original prop collectors who purchased the set because they’re Blade Runner fans who know they’ll never own one of the original wallets weren't at all upset by inaccuracies that cropped up later. I think this is due to the fact that this sort of thing happens to original prop collectors all the time--something production-created doesn't make it to the final cut unbeknownst to anyone until the film is released or higher definition content becomes available.

Hopefully, this "little" missive has helped explain the dynamics of the "controversial" Deckard Wallet Project.

Phil


Last edited by philippes on Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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spinner44.com
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was an entertaining read. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Rolling Eyes

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