FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Profile Log in to check your private messages
 Forum Index      Log in  Register
Deckard Wallet Discussion (New Discoveries Inside from DVD)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Replica and Screen Used Props
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
philippes
Community Member


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spinner44.com wrote:
That was an entertaining read. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Rolling Eyes

-

John,

Are you familiar with the economics term "moral hazard?" That became an issue when you created your own wallet project after moving against my wishes, but you aren't able to see it from your frame of reference. It had an extremely negative effect on me and others connected to the project, though.

I should be very bitter, but Iím not. You, on the other hand, still seem to be upset and harboring unjustified resentment. Am I wrong about that?

Phil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Author Message
spinner44.com
Community Member


Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 593
Location: Phoenix, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil,

In true style you are always the martyr. Phil, there is enough history of your shenanigans that it baffles me (as well as others) why people even trust you. I guess there are suckers everywhere.

As far as the wallet goes that NDA that even your "counsel" penned was much the laugh as he himself dismissed it as poor judgment at the time to help his friend. It was a crock. Like your wallet project. Pay a thousand dollars (as you even put it to me) to be part of an elite club of owners. Owners of what? There are so many inconsistencies to count. It truly is unfortunate (for you) that new technology allows us to see more detail than ever before. Donít blame my project for that. I merely made a better product for a reasonable price and no silly NDA that was bullshit from the start. Not to mention speaking to actual NAMED sources who debunk even the badge ever existing in the wallet. In the end these wallet sets are really nice fan made fantasy. Nothing more.

Listen, in my opinion you tried to sell a bill of goods that was at the least, misrepresented. And before you say this is some slight against your profession or "clients", let's not forget it's not exactly your day job.

In the end we are hobbyists and the high-handed, self-aggrandizing way you try portray yourself is just plain silly. There, I said it. Thatís all folks!

-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Author Message
bbabich
Community Member


Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There you go again Phil....

Don't you think it would have behooved you to contact Art Shippee about the very existence of the badge BEFORE you did your project? Why contact him now?

The funny thing about your criticism of Spinner44.com's set is that he made a similar FANTASY badge set for less money at much better quality. Really Phil? A cold cast badge blank? Did you really charge people $300 for that?

I have said it before, you either intentionally mislead the people you sold your pieces to or you are negligent.

As for the negative effect, are you really going to blame Spinner for your own shortcomings? Around the same time of your wallet debacle, the Worldcon finds revealed many design "mysteries" for the ID, HD and technology let us have better captures of the props, more reference material became public, and production members also shared information with enthusiasts. Are we really going to start blaming people for information and reference material surfacing? I think the negative effect is that someone pulled the curtain on your dog and pony show.

-Bryan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
Noeland
Community Guide


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said, never boring.

The missive was indeed fun to read, and not only because I can imagine some folks having to break out their thesaurus for it!

Wink

Honestly, I felt the need to bring up the wallet in the bottle thread because the wallet stuff really brings to light, for me, that even professionals in the industry can drop the ball where information and memory is concerned. But also, credibility is an issue that should be touched on when making claims without backing them up. Even if you have a track record, good or bad. Back it up.

Ask me what I designed and produced 25 years ago, see what you get. (mind you, I was 10 years old - hahahaha) Hell, ask me what I designed 25 months ago, see what happens!

My favorite pieces of work go into a portfolio, and aspects of the work always trigger memory. Now, if someone were trying to duplicate what I had done some 25 years later, I really don't know how much I'd know about, or care about.

And yeah Phil, you're dealing with two very different tax brackets, two very different social sets. We know that. I also know that at heart you're just a guy who wants to share in the love of movie props, and enjoy yourself in doing so, and there ain't a damn thing wrong with wanting to make some money too.

I never had any issue with the NDA, no matter the legality of it, it was as much a promise as a legal document. And regardless of what you think Phil might be doing right or wrong, you cannot, IMHO, use that to break a promise of you made.

In the end, I didn't purchase a wallet. Any wallet. I made my own, and was quite happy with it in the end.

But, Phil, it seems to me you really shouldn't be bothered by how folks react to things like pixelized photos, and NDA's. They are a bit out of the ordinary for the hobby, but not for the film industry, which is why I was never surprised, bothered, or agitated by the secrecy surrounding the project.

But at the same time, I don't really get off on having something others do not have, and that was certainly part of the marketing for the wallet. The whole idea of collecting for folks with lots of money is that they can afford to purchase, and covet, what others DON'T have, and they do.

That's a whole seb-set of the hobby that I have never envied or wanted to be part of.

Anyway, you knew that at some point someone was going to produce their own version of the wallet. You told me so. If it was never meant for public dissemination, I guess it should have never been made public. But I think you knew all along it was just a matter of time, and you were just trying to make as much money as you could before the bottom dropped out. (and though that may sound bad, I don't really have a problem with it)

And the wallet project was even marketed, basically, on your reputation Phil. You were giving folks an NDA, asking for thier promise, but you also made a promise yourself, that the wallet was screen accurate.

Anyway, I think the horse is, as I said on another borad, puree. It's Salsa, with a hint of lime.

Smile
_________________
I don't have enough blasters!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
bbabich
Community Member


Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noeland I think you are missing the point; the issue is that Phil's set is not real.

Southwell has the artwork, he remembers the wallet and what he sent off, no badge; we have since discovered through other sources in production that a badge was never in the wallet, and the screencaps have taken us a long way as well, especially if you have the HD ones.

Suddenly we see that Phil is contacting Art Shippee. Why?

If you want to talk about the socio-economic division between screen used collectors and replica collectors lets go to another thread, but it has nothing to do with the validity of this piece... any mention of such is just smoke and mirrors.

-Bryan



Now back to the dog and pony show...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
philippes
Community Member


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, unless I'm mistaken, none of the negative comments here come from wallet project customers. And that's always been the case. I find that peculiar.

Regardless, all of you are entitled to your opinions and I respect that. That doesn't mean I'm not continually going to attempt proving that everything I did in regards to the wallet project was on-the-level--since it was.

Until the WorldCon IDs showed up and HD source material came out, everyone, including the owner of the wallet I reproduced, plus owners of other wallets that exist, believed the one I used was the screen-used copy.

No attempt was ever made to mislead or deceive. I did the best I could with all of the information I had.

The NDA was a requirement I suggested to get the project done. Otherwise, it never would have happened.

I know I've written this before, but I'll write it again: I never made a penny on the wallet project. Every cent went to my sponsor. I'm still in-the-hole $5000 plus labor on this.

I've tried to contact Art several times by email--even during the wallet thread on the RPF--but he's never responded. He might be upset at me for some reason. I don't know. Maybe I'll call. I just don't want to get yelled at for something I'm not expecting.

I'm not a martyr, but you guys who attacked me unfairly during the RPF brouhaha made me into one. In spite of my history of being an honest guy, you all jumped to the unsubstantiated conclusion that I was a thief. I think anyone who's done business with me will agree that this is simply not true.

Finally, I now realize that I'm not going to change John's and Bryan's minds anytime soon. You guys just don't like me. And that's okay too. I've tried to dislike the two of you as well, but it's simply not in my nature to be that way unless I think someone is evil or sociopathic. In my life, I've only known one person like that. And much of your dislike of me comes from propaganda perpetrated by that individual.

After all, if I'm really a good and decent guy, and not evil incarnate, what does that say about the person I dislike?

It's easier to hate a guy one thinks is a monster.

Phil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Author Message
spinner44.com
Community Member


Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 593
Location: Phoenix, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil,

Since you don't know what is in my heart, all I can say is that I do not hate you or see you as evil incarnate. I save that for murders and true monsters. So please do not put words or associate feelings that have never been stated as such.

I however do hold contempt for those who make class level distinctions with a self pious attitude. Not hate.

If proof comes to light I will be eating my words and offer a sincere apology. However the info I have collected so far suggests different.

And by the way, I donít think Ridley is angry with me.

-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Author Message
philippes
Community Member


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

And if the Deckard wallet source material I used to make my reproduction proves to be completely bogus, I'll make a full and complete public apology too.

I won't be able to refund anyone's money, since I never had it, but I'll do whatever is needed to make things right.

Phil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Author Message
spinner44.com
Community Member


Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 593
Location: Phoenix, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Now I will shut up and get back to props as they should be enjoyed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Author Message
Noeland
Community Guide


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Noeland I think you are missing the point; the issue is that Phil's set is not real.


No, it may be the point for you, but not for me. I was trying to make a much different point, even when I did the whole COUGHwalletCOUGH thing in the bottle thread (or my rambling post here), it wasn't meant as a personal attack on Phil (or anybody). Just saying that people can be wrong, anybody can be wrong, even when they're absolutely sure.

So, keep on looking, screen capping, and having fun investigating the possibility of things.

At this point, whether the wallet is "real" or not real, we know it's not screen accurate. Whether Phil lied, or was duped, or replaced by an evil robot, the wallet isn't a replica(nt) of the wallet Ford had in his hands. Personally, I don't really care, even if I used it to make a point about the bottle, I was not trying to attack Phil. Spinner44 made an awesome wallet. I almost bought both of them at one point or another, ragardless of the politics.

I would not have regretted either purchase.

Phil was one of the first people I ever spoke with in this hobby, and he's never been anything but nice to me, and honestly, pretty free with information, even when I was going after him in the big bad RPF wallet thread, which I honestly felt bad about later.

And even now, we're just retreading the same ground over and over again with no resolution.

I surf on over here because I'm interested in the props from Blade Runner (OK, I LOVE the props from blade runner) and for better or worse, so do you all. And Phil is also just a fan.

So all I'm saying is, I hope Phil can be just a fan here and chat with us like anybody else would, and not have everything thrown at him all the time. That goes for anybody.

Hope that wasn't too all over the place this time Smile hahahaha.
_________________
I don't have enough blasters!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
philippes
Community Member


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noeland,

Thanks.

Phil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Author Message
andy
Community Guide


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6203
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil,

It is good to have your voice here, even if it isn't popular. I do appreciate everything you have done with BR fandom (especially during the 90's). I also have made no conclusions as to your moral intentions. I do hope you continue to occasionaly help those of us that are not in this for the money and care less about those that are.

I will however state that you have been more wrong about details than right. I especially remember what you said about the hero gun that you swore by because of your "sources". Almost all of it turned out to be wrong. It seems you believe what you hear before what you see, and maybe your sources have intentionally misled you on many of these things. Maybe because they think you serve two masters. Or maybe it just was plain bad memory of the sources. I can say you have helped me with much of my research, but I will always take what you say with a grain of salt (as I should with all sources of information). Many long time facts in all things turn out to be just myths when looked into deep enough.

The truth is your reputation is tarnished, not because you made mistakes about authenticity, not because you sold things with a high price tag, not because you sold them with some very creative marketing ideas, not because you you have made these mistakes more than once, but because of all of it combined. Since you also still serve the masters of the prop owners, it may be impossible to redeem yourself with your old gang. It can be logically justified, but it is like telling your old friends that you used to be a blue collar guy with, that now you are a boss and you still want them to be your friend, it will be beyond difficult. I do hope that if you understand this that maybe you may still also understand that just because your new gang is well connected and has more money, it in no way makes them better or more deserving. Most High end prop owners often just buy their props, while the guys here often do loads of research to find the truth. In the end I only have issues with those that misrepresent themselves, even if they are mainly doing it to themself.

It does seem that seem that many of the things that have hurt this hobby as a hobby are a primer for the 3 of 7 deadly sins, Greed, Envy, and Pride.

In the end thae wallet idea was poorly planned (the main concept of getting people to pay large amounts of money on mostly just your word), poorly researched (back up evidence and proof was not obtained) and poorly executed (it promised more than it could deliver absolutely and only seemed to make a few "suckers" happy).

I for one still do have respect for you though, but I don't trust you any more than any other stranger. I also thought the idea of paying over $1,000 for a prop replica set sight unseen was about the same as buying swamp land in Florida. Even if I had the money to spare, I would be ashamed of myself for doing it. I was however angry that the information on the wallet was dangled out there telling me I could never ever see it without paying the entrance fee. It is a concept taken straight from Barnum and his circus side shows. Regardless of your intention, it was still annoying to those of us that could not afford it, and that is where most of the anger from people that were not buyers had most likely come from (i.e. Envy).


Regardless of all this I hope you stick around and add to the great variety of points of veiw we have on this site.

Andy


Last edited by andy on Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
philippes
Community Member


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy,

I understand your position and I respect your opinion.

Unfortunately, the only way I could convince the owner of the wallet set to bring it to market was to do it in the way that it was done. Otherwise, the project would never have happened, and we'd clearly all be worse off. (Well, maybe not me...) Don't you agree?

In the end, as I knew would eventually happen, the wallet details got out. People who paid for the wallet set simply got a first look; sort of the same way one pays more for orchestra seats at a theater.

As I mentioned earlier, it was a lot easier when I did my own research independently. Nowadays, I deal with a lot of people who have enormous amounts of production material and they simply don't know what was or was not used on-screen. They also generally don't like for their information to be widely shared.

Just because something wasn't seen in the final cut doesn't mean it isn't original or wasn't filmed at some point. After all, the vast majority of a movie ends up on the cutting room floor.

I realize that replica prop collectors primarily focus on what they see in the final version of a film. I no longer focus on this unless I need to prove that something can be screen-matched. And finding something that screen-matches is incredibly difficult.

When dealing with original props, mistakes are made all of the time. Itís extremely common to buy something original that looks like it was the one used in the movie, but ends up not being that specific piece.

I guess I no longer care about whether or not something is exactly as it was seen in the film as long as it's a production original. That's probably at odds with replica prop collecting philosophy, but that's the way I see things now. Maybe that's one of the fundamental differences between original and replica prop collectors.

Phil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Author Message
andy
Community Guide


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6203
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trouble is Phil it will never convince anybody of your integrity or honesty to say that. You have just sided with those that justify their greed and vanity to own exclusively a piece that only has value because of it's percieved creation or use in a movie. This only makes you look worse here and not just because we hobbyists that surround prop replicating.

I can say I do envy your postion with the connections you have, but I wouldn't sell others on anything without more than just the word of a so called movie prop collector. I would guess that only reason the buyers of your wallet that havn't complained are because they are in denial about it's authenticty or are hoping for other goodies that you might pass on to them if they stay in your circle. Politics will make many people eat crap and pretend to like it.

Like I said before, I am not as convinced as others on your intention to decieve as others are, and I think that once you have sold yourself so completely on something, it is darn near impossible to back out of it. I tend to have a pretty good BS meter, and you don't seem to trigger it all that much yourself, but the items you back have triggered it consistantly, even before the wallet controversy.

Many of my issues have less to do with you, as much as it does the fact that this hobby should be so wrapped up in capitalism, both above and below ground, that it makes people so covetous of movie scraps. As much as I love Blade Runner, I have always given more value to the inspiration it gives, and even more so to ones own original work.

I wonder if the owners of the original props that hoard and hide them know that they are not looked up to for their ownership, but instead reviled for their greed and vanity. I have no problem with people keeping things a secret if that is how that sounds, but instead I have issue with the secret pride an owner may have just because they are the keeper of such an item, and then for them to lot out information at a hight cost, when in fact the item was not all it said it was. People do seem to have been had, but is it just your buyers? You for buying into the illusion? The owner for giving you the line, or who they got the item from? Again who does or doesn't have or not have the right to make as much money as possible with anything? In this country it seems we all do, but I don't think anybody actually in the end actually does. In a movie item so many people are a part of it's creation and almost none of them usually get a dime for it. The writers strike is a good example of the creators not getting what they deserve, and the money people get it all for no actual work on their parts.

I must stop because my time is limited untill I get a computer up and running of my own, and I feel like I have blabbed on for way to long as it is Very Happy

Still good to have you here though Phil. Just can't say I will buy anything from you Wink...well maybe a Cibi glass when I have the cash. I am sure I will get my balls busted here someday as well Smile. The fact that you haven't taken it personally is something I will give you a lot of credit for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
philippes
Community Member


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy,

I brought the wallet project to the fans at great personal and financial expense. I've also released information over the years that I was told by reliable sources. If I were engage to in the due diligence you suggest, or do the exhaustive research you recommend, the data would never get out at all since so much of it is difficult to substantiate initially. it's damned if I do; and damned if I don't.

I've certainly made mistakes over the years, but they weren't of my personal doing. I simply relayed information given to me by people who made errors because of a faulty memory.

Unfortunately, after what I've gone through, I no longer share like I used to. It's not necessarily that I don't want to; it's just that I'm trying to avoid getting nailed to the cross if a source is mistaken (notice my martyr allusion).

I've also somewhat lost my need for recognition from the prop replica community. Besides, they tend to eat their young (and their elders). And I've pretty much done everything I want to in that area, so I'll pass the torch to you and others.

Eventually, you'll come to understand my motivations and dilemmas and begin sympathizing with my situation. You haven't yet been put in a place with my frame of reference, so you probably can't see things from my perspective.

On the other hand, I've been in your position, and I fully understand the feelings you've expressed. In fact, I've felt them myself in the past.

Regardless, I appreciate the time you took to express your thoughts. And I truly respect what you've articulated.

I continue to believe that the Deckard Wallet Project will stand on its own in the long run. It might not hold the same position as my Blade Runner fonts, the C&S blaster, Cibi glass, or Deckard holster, but I'm pretty sure it'll carry its weight at some point down the road. Time will tell whether or not my confidence in the wallet set is vindicated.

Phil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Author Message
andy
Community Guide


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6203
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have experienced some of what you talk about, and that is why I try not to sell anything as a profit making venture, and I try not to claim so much without some sort of backing evidence, if at all. Truth is I may have been tempted to do so before witnessing what happens almost regularly in this hobby.

I can see you probably took a loss on the wallet project is a likely possibility. Since hindsight is 20/20 I can only say it may have been worth not doing at all, because the information that was opened to your buyers is in most opinions worthless. Since the Provenance was not public it has no validity, especially since the details that were confirmed on the project were already available elsewhere. I myself had found Jesper's 'V ID' information without any help from others. Since I was not a member of the RPF at the time I had no idea it was already found as well. The rest could have been obtained from screen caps especially if someone had access to a 35mm copy of the film. The new HD set I am sure will also shed some light on the subject I am sure. I can tell you from what I have seen so far is that the ID shown by Deckard in the film does not match yours. It looks like many of the details were guessed at and I know I have tried to point out those details to you before. I guess one of the reasons I gave up defending you is that you seemed to want to ignore those details when I told you about them, and continue thinking the ID matched. Sure it is possible it was made for the film but not used, but that is not what you advertized. Your source then intended making money on the project without it being a screen seen item or not. The cost of an actual production made but not seen item would be very close to the price you asked for these and would have so much more actual value. John prooved that these sets could be made at a much much lower price and still be profitable for the owner.

Again this all brings me back to reading the RPF thread about the Gun itself and your opinions based on inside information, compared to what others and myself had seen in the screen caps. When the gun turned up all your inside information that you were "absolutely confidant" about turned out wrong and Nickdaring and others turned out right. Even Rich went against your beliefs and painted the grip frame black for the version 4 gun. Other things you got wrong were the second green LED on the site rod, and the bottom of the butt plate being painted black and not having a "dimple", as I believe Nick also pointed out well enough for me to agree with him dispite your reputation.

Ever since these happenings I have decided to still value your opinions and information, but to treat them as heresay and in no way fact. I do believe they are highly valuable as an insight into the opinions and views of others that may have been closer to the making of the movie, but still as unreliable as a witness in Rashamon.

I think what may have happened is that your confidence in yourself and your sources may have blinded you to the facts, or made you choose getting the information out as quickly as possible as more important than confirmation of the facts, and like Dan Rather, you took the fall for the oversight.

The only way now to actually ever get your reputation back would unfortunately need for you to disclose more information about your source, because without it we are led to conclude that the source does not exist. It reads from many of our standpoints as an exotic excuse as much as a child in grade school talking about their parent working as a spy and that is why they are never around and whay you can not talk about them. It is an easier idea to delude yourself with than to admit that you are a bastard and a liar. Of course many of the fantastic delusions of children like this have become the source for many of the movies we all now worship, like the stories of Baron Von Munchausen. Sometimes the fictional anecdote does take on more power than the truth, so who know what history will end up finally writing in it's pages on this. Truth may have less to do with it then the story itself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
jhyphen
Community Member


Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've tried to dislike the two of you as well, but it's simply not in my nature to be that way unless I think someone is evil or sociopathic. In my life, I've only known one person like that. And much of your dislike of me comes from propaganda perpetrated by that individual.


BOO!

As the "evil/sociopathic" individual to whom Phil refers, I feel I should add my voice to those who see through his balderdash. Speak of Voldemort and he appears....

First, I drafted the infamous NDA as an exercise of intellectual vanity. I did not draft it as his advisor (and in any case he made a point of telling me he could not pay me for my effort, which was fine with me). We've never had any professional association, though as his friend at the time I often helped him (and vice versa, to be fair). I told him it had no legal weight, but that I wanted to see if I could come up with something that would scare people into compliance. He adapted it for his own use on that premise. I still have my original draft of the so-called "Accession Agreement," which I whipped up relative to no specific project or request.

To be clear, I remain ashamed for my role in what has proven to be quite the debacle. Using my wordsmithing ability to trick people into believing they had bargained away their rights was the low point of my involvement in props. I can't apologize enough.

Despite all of the bad blood, I do not believe Phil is a bad person. Well, let me refine that: I do not believe Phil sees himself as a bad person. I spent a solid couple of years as a close acquaintance of his, meeting for lunch almost every week, and occasionally for dinner with spouses and friends included. I don't know...seemed like a friendship to me. And I gained incredible insight into his quirks and peccadilloes.

Over the course of that relatively short and now undeniably weird association, I noticed behaviors that troubled me. Most notably, I saw a guy becoming more and more obsessed with his status as a "broker," a guy who increasingly sorted his world into "clients" and "customers", and for whom what began as a hobby seemed to take on an increasingly obsessive and unhealthy quality.

I also noticed what soon became zero tolerance for any kind of challenge to that self-created status, to the point where daring to question his bona fides became an unspeakable affront to his self-image.

Again, I don't think this stems from any badness on his part.

But does that even matter anymore?

Self delusion ultimately can be as toxic and corrupting as bad intent. Personally, I perceive that Phil's involvement in the hobby is unhealthy and has the qualities of an addiction.

Because I have been frank in my appraisal of him, I have earned his undying enmity. I still have an epic thread from a now-defunct private board once administered--can you believe it?--by the similarly intense author of the original prop blog. In that thread, which is equal parts frightening and fascinating, Phil devotes a lot of digital ink to characterizing me as a socio/psychopathic monster whom he admits he hates, and likening me to "Voldemort".

Well, it doesn't take a degree in psychology to see that what he was doing was displacing onto me, as one of the first people to call shenanigans on him, those qualities he perceived and loathed in himself.

I mean, have you ever noticed that he never really accounts for his behavior, despite his pseudo-intellectual casuistry? Look, none of us is perfect, and we all make mistakes. But if you read a few posts previous, even his mistakes are someone else's fault.... Yipes.

Anyway, he invited me to chime in with his oblique broadside about me. If you want to know why he is so filled with fear and loathing toward me, it's because I know where the proverbial bodies are buried, and I stopped helping him pour the lime a long time ago.

My fond wish would be for the guy to attain some self awareness and recognize his foibles with clarity, instead of twisting himself into a rhetorical pretzel to dodge accountability.

The Phil I first met was a generous, kind-hearted albeit exceedingly intense guy. I don't know when he first turned a corner, but it's a crying shame....

Written with not an iota of malice.

John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
oldzey
Community Member


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 567
Location: Peoria, Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
andy
Community Guide


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 6203
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is starting to sound like an intervention, maybe it could become one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Author Message
jhyphen
Community Member


Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andy wrote:
This is starting to sound like an intervention, maybe it could become one.


I'm afraid I don't see such a hopeful trajectory. I believe he has erected an impenetrable wall of rationalization, the mortar for which is composed of self-deception, vanity and hubris.

Phil has many admirable qualities. He is generous, industrious, handy, a quick study, interesting. I've spent many hours engaged in compelling discussion and debate with the guy.

Like all of us, he's not a simple caricature who can be defined solely by his virtues or vices.

And there's the rub.... How do you reconcile the guy who would give you the shirt off his back, who can regale you for hours with fascinating stories about his family history, who can research and produce some very nice props replicas, with the guy who seemingly has created for himself a credibility problem of monstrous proportions?

For some who only have limited exposure to him, it must be flabbergasting to read such harsh appraisals. If you've ever done a deal with him, he's lightning quick to deliver, unfailingly courteous, and usually willing to go to extraordinary lengths to ensure you walk away feeling happy.

We must be talking about two different guys, right...?

Alas, we are not. Character is about accountability. But to Phil, it appears to be about accounting.

Let me explain: A recurring theme in his increasingly abstruse posts is the notion that good deeds somehow completely cancel out bad deeds, as if it is a balance sheet exercise. When someone challenges something he has done, often he counters not by addressing the allegation forthrightly, but by trotting out a bunch of other good things he has done, as if somehow that eliminates the problem.

If anyone saw Spike Lee's great movie Inside Man, perhaps the following quote is apt:

"I sold my soul and I've been trying to buy it back ever since...."

Certainly, the good things we do merit consideration. But the notion that anyone should be above reproach for a questionable act because otherwise he's a good guy is absurd.

And when you hack through the thicket of gobbledygook, doublespeak, circular reasoning, and outright nonsense, you (at least I) see just how absurd this whole thing really, really is.

Another quote from Inside Man:

"And then he tried to wash away his guilt. Drown it in a lifetime of good deeds and a sea of respectability. It almost worked, too. But inevitably, the further you run from your sins, the more exhausted you are when they catch up to you. And they do. Certain. It will not fail."

I don't think it's too late to set things right, but the window is closing.

While this may seem utterly disingenuous coming from me given my own personal history with him, with utter sincerity I have nothing but good wishes for Phil. I would love to see him embrace accountability and restore his good name.

But the only way that will ever happen is if he stops blaming other people for his troubles. Neither the devil, nor Voldemort, made him do it....

Peace.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Replica and Screen Used Props All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 2 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
BBTech Template by © 2003-04 MDesign

Problems Registering Contact: help@propsummit.com