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Noeland
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:32 pm    Post subject: Deleted and Alternate scenes discussion Reply with quote

Caution: Deleted and Alt scenes SPOILERS AHEAD: And believe it or not, they made a little mini movie out of them that was incredibly effective and affecting and if you haven't watch it on the DVD, GO NOW, and do it. Then come back here and discuss it!

So, Christmas Eve I saw The Final Cut at The Plaza Theater here in Atlanta.

Christmas Day I open my brand new suitcase edition and the first thing I watch is Dangerous Days. Because I was watching it while I was cooking, it took me all day to get through it. I loved it!

Today I've been watching all the "archive" footage and I watched the deleted and alternate scenes "cut" and was fairly well BLOWN AWAY. Who would have known after all these years that basically an entire other film was sitting in the shot footage.

I had always had my suspicions! hahahaha.

The mini-movie, for me, was incredibly thought provoking and stirring. It was a very different, but also a not so different, view of the events in the film. It's strange how this films works on opposite, concurrent, and reflective levels.

It gives you a wonderful insight into what the film "could" have been, and also what the film makers were struggling with while editing the film.

They say, you make a movie 3 times.

Once while writing it.

Once while filming it.

Once while editing it.

Charles de Lauzirika found a fourth way.

Once while compiling extra footage!

SPOILERS AHEAD. Seriously, if you haven't watched the deleted scenes, you should go do that now.




OK.
One line in particular made my mind RACE. I mean, it provoked a line of thinking that after all these years I'd never had. And for good reason I suppose.

At the very end of the Deleted and Alternate scenes movie, Rachel looks at Deckard and says:

"You know what I think? I think we were made for each other."

And my effin' jaw dropped to the floor.

Imagine, The Police approach Tyrell and request a replicant to hunt replicants.

He knows there is a chance Rachel is going to be found out now that they are poking around his company.

He knows there is a chance Rachel is going to be "retired" if she is found out.

So yes, he gives them their replicant cop to hunt other replicants, but he "programs" into him (through false memories) an empathy, and he designed Deckard to fall in love with and to protect Rachel. He knew it was all about to hit the fan, and he didn't want his daughter, maybe his best creation yet, to be disposed of like any other slave.

So when Deckard came calling with the VK machine, he made sure they were in a room together, he made sure Rachel got under his SKIN, as best he could.

And all I have to say about the scene where Bryant and Gaff are watching Deckard and Holden is WOW. AWESOME. FLOORED ME.

And seeing Tom Southwell chatting about making the designs was so cool, I can't even express it. I won't try. I'll only say I think he's brilliant too, and also very grounded. He seems tro have a great attitude about his role on the film, but I wonder if he knows how many fans he actually has!

Wink

I know this fan adores his work and his talent.

All in all, it's been a VERY Blade Runner Christmas and I'm in dystopian heaven! hahahahahaha.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't agree with you more Noeland!
My "Case-set" arrived on the 21st and I've been watching it ever since.

I thought the movie short of the out-takes was killer...I was blown away by the very same things...a whole nother movie! Shocked

What did you think about the section where they talk about the original concept for Roy killing Tyrell... only to discover that he was a replicant as well? And then Roy was supposed to get back on the elevator, go to the very top of the building and discover Tyrell's Body in it's Glass-sarchophagus?! I would have loved to have seen that.
The Brief-case set has already more than payed for it'self in my estimation...as P.K.D. said...BR is so dense with information you have to watch it again and again to absorb anything and each time you watch it you find something new. The new set more than proves that!
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phase pistol
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I had the same reaction to the "alternate happy ending"... wow.



The entire "deleted scenes" montage is just staggering... really adds a dimension to what we've been seeing all these years.

The bit with Bryant and Gaff watching Holden and Deckard on the monitors really floored me as well. "I spit on metaphysics!" Shocked



I can really see tho how the film must have evolved... some of this stuff, it's too concentrated, it hits things too "on the nose". If too much of this stuff (particularly the narration) had made it into the final film, we probably wouldn't think much of Blade Runner today. It was the mystery that compelled us all these years. Lay it out flat, and there's not as much there.

I will tell ya tho, shots like this would have settled a lot of that "wallet" nonsense from a couple years ago...

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andy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the "spit on metaphysics" scene I noticed that not only did Gaff have a Safariland shoulder holster, and a similar ID to Deckards, but he also wore it clipped on the the shoulder holster the same way I did for Halloween. It also seems like Bryant's holster is a right hand holster instead of the left hand that was being sold at screenused and is now missing from their site.
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great screen caps. HF looks like he could shoot Sean Young in the face! hahaha.

It struck me that they changed the spinner interior (as that's obviously the curved police spinner cockpit) for the final scene. I'm betting that's a found item stereo in there! Smile

I have a picture of the panel with the monitors in it, that was on wheels if memory serves! It was cool to see it featured so well in that scene because obviously someone put loads of work into making it.

Quote:
he also wore it clipped on the the shoulder holster the same way I did for Halloween


And why don't we see any pictures of you in costume?

or do we and I missed them??


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phase pistol
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I noticed about the alternate and deleted scenes, is that most of the new shots are framed much wider, and show a lot more of the environment.

So in the final film, it appears that shots were in part chosen for their obscurity. Tight closeups, you don't see as much of the surroundings.

All of which makes the film as released more focused and impactful, but for prop wonks such as us, the deleted scenes have more meat on them. Razz

Anyway... re the new Happy Ending, I note that the camera does get close enough for you to tell that it really is Deckard's ground car, and not some "recycled footage from The Shining" as has been claimed.



One of the Holden-capsule scenes gives us a rare well-lit view of Deckard's outfit



Deckard perusing the hard copy on the escaped skin jobs.



Deckard bonds with a sleazy Taffey Lewis bartender, who suggests that since he's a cop, why doesn't he just barge in on the "artists" backstage



What Deckard is looking at, while at the sink cleaning up after the fight with Leon



Batty uses Sebastian's key cards to escape from the Tyrell building



Deckard and his "wife"... on the same porch as Rachel's photo!

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phase pistol
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleted and Alternate scenes discussion Reply with quote

Noeland wrote:

So yes, he gives them their replicant cop to hunt other replicants, but he "programs" into him (through false memories) an empathy, and he designed Deckard to fall in love with and to protect Rachel. He knew it was all about to hit the fan, and he didn't want his daughter, maybe his best creation yet, to be disposed of like any other slave.


This actually makes a lot of sense, and finally provides a reason for the whole "Deckard is a Replicant" thing.

Without this, yeah maybe Deckard is a replicant, but so what? Detractors have said that the film makes no sense if Deck is a robot.

But look at what we have now: Deckard is a robot, but a robot designed to catch other robots... and fall in love with one special robot!

Also pertinent to this subplot, is all the banter with Holden, over whether Deckard "fucked a washing machine and then turned it off"... except the machine Holden is referring to is Zhora.

What this does is bring up a difference between simple sexual attraction (seen when Deckard is ogling Rachel's legs), and actual love, which is what Deckard seems to be showing by the end of the film.

Also consider: many of the "humans" we see in the film are lecherous and sleazy (Bryant, Holden, that bartender at Taffey Lewis's)... but all the replicants are honorable and noble!

Well murderers as well, but they seem more honest somehow. Smile

- k
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andy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as my costume I only had one picture on my camera. All others were on others cameras that I did not get copies of yet. It can bee seen in the Halloween thread.

The footage of the spinner driving off was originally filmed for BR but deemed unusable according to 'somebody' in the box set (can't remember whom in Dangerous Days I think), the footage used for the theatrical cut was in fact from 'the Shining' cutting room floor.
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The costume looked great, just checked it out.



I think about the only person I'm comparable with in the film would be Bryant!! hahahaha.

Drink one for me, willya' pal?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ridley Scott himself says they used footage from the Shining.He asked Stanley Kubrick and he was told to use any unused footage he wanted.
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Noeland
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, that's not the same porch. The Deckard porch has railings and two columns on either side. Rachel's has 1 column either side, and no railings.



One of the other things I noticed is the different epser sequence, it's a whole different photograph, and the image he prints from the esper matches the image in the photograph of Zhora's face.

One of my nitpicks about the movie has always been that the hard copy he prints isn't even close to what zhora was doing in the film.

Now I finally know WHY! Smile

Oh happy day.
Njc--------------------------------
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The DVD set is great ,no doubt.The only problem I have is they left out the scene I most wanted to see!Deckard reloads his gun after Batty breaks his fingers.Seen in only one version of the film,The San Diego preview grrrrr.I wish they released every bit of footage cut,I mean everything!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question is, does the actual film stock of that scene even still exist? Its possible that it wasn't included because there are no more copies or negatives left. Flim doesn't keep too well and footage that is on the cutting room floor usually gets swept up and disposed of.
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Rustyn242
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A general techie question to "Phase Pistol"- are using a PC or Mac? What program do you use to get your large screen grabs?
On a Mac I use a program called "Snapz Pro" - it does an okay job but some of your grabs look really, really clear and are a nice size.
Anyone one else have some programs or methods they like to get good screen grabs?
thanks,

Rustyn242

p.s. I agree - it was nice to see the esper footage that matches that "hard copy" of Zhora.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To follow up on Noeland's post that the porches are different- THUS PROVING THAT DECKARD IS NOT A REPLICANT!! Laughing

Take a look.





Besides the fact that Rachel's house has single uprights with a decorative molding- they're also made of 4x posts.

Deckards are much thicker beams, double uprights on each side with a railing in between.

Different color front door, and different seating on the porch.

So- not the same porch.

Thanks, Kevin, for the photo.

Tom
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amish
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But Ridley said he was Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does he know?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be careful disagreeing with Ridley Scott... there might be a knock at your door!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm not in the BR Mafia, then I'm little people. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote




They're white in case you are wondering.





"Mom?"-Batty
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