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The Loyalizer
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noeland wrote:
Ah, I get it. The product sucks because you can't afford it!

Wink


Nope. Never said the product sucked. Quite the opposite in fact.

What does suck is I can't currently afford it.

Question regarding the gas version: where does it take the gas? The FN 5.7 I have the gas is stored in the magazine, but I've never messed around with a gas revolver.
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Ham Salad
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Loyalizer wrote:
An
Its just one of those things that looks really great, but my finances just don't justify its cost. Now, if I was hemmoraging $100 bills, then it'd be another story.


For me , it's not that I can't afford it...technically I could afford a lot. However, my upbringing just makes paying 500 bucks for a toy gun painful. Besides, the real issue is 'am I getting what I pay for'?
The hartford gun is mass produced, and it oughta be cheaper.
MR props are actually MUCH cheaper for equicalant size and complexity...
my guess is that they would charge abotu $300 for the thing.
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Ham Salad
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of toy guns, does anybody have the sidkit gun? They claim it is all metal, but WHAT metal? I ain't paying more than $300 for a gun cast out of lead (pewter).

I wouln't mind pot metal (cast zinc), But I'd prefer aluminum or something equally nice and strong.
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svander
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many folks here have a Sidkit and like it a lot. I believe it is pewter and the metal is a little soft though.
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IGNITERS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject: sidkit Reply with quote

dont know what kind of metal it is but is seems harder than pewter, I have no problems with mine ( not like I'm runing around chasin people with it ....if thats what you have planned then ...)
check it out in the blaster showoff thread.
yup it all metal but the grips , bulbs , and wires !
HEAVY TOO!
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andy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pewter is an alloy of Tin(mostly), Copper and either lead, antimony or bismuth. Depending on the ratios it can take on many qualities. The Sid is most likely pewter. BTW, more Copper would turn it into Bronze.
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andy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

more info...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewter
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Ham Salad
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andy wrote:
Pewter is an alloy of Tin(mostly), Copper and either lead, antimony or bismuth. Depending on the ratios it can take on many qualities. The Sid is most likely pewter. BTW, more Copper would turn it into Bronze.


Yeah, but typically what many people call pewter is actually lead with a bit of tin in it. In my case, it's too heavy and too weak: I'd be afraid it would brak if dropped. Further, I had in mind putting a blank gun in it so it would appear to fire...

Well, if that's the case no sense in buying it, I suppose I'll have to see if the hartford is worth it, or rebuild the offworld and replace the stress bearing
plastic parts with metal ones...

I was hoping to avoid having to practically mill all new parts for the thing.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Loyalizer wrote:
Noeland wrote:
Ah, I get it. The product sucks because you can't afford it!

Wink


Nope. Never said the product sucked. Quite the opposite in fact.

What does suck is I can't currently afford it.

Question regarding the gas version: where does it take the gas? The FN 5.7 I have the gas is stored in the magazine, but I've never messed around with a gas revolver.


Well, the revolver gasguns I have either have little tanks in the cartridges or they have one hidden in the grip.
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The Loyalizer
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I thought they might have it in the grips, didn't know some took the gas in the shells.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to Hong Kong??

WAY too much risk.

First risk, as a small one off company I may drop a lot of money over there and get nothing. (Happens some times.)

Second risk, I pay a lot and get a modified model because they would not do it my way. (this happens to almost everything done over there, they seem to never do it as spec, they always make short cuts and change things..ask anyone.)

Third risk, you all might still not buy, too costly, too cheap, too wrong.

Forth risk say I do get 5000 made and they are good and I can sell them for $300.00/$400.00 then Warner’s get wind of them and C&Ds me. Kiss my money (and ass) good by.

Get your moneys worth??

Consider, what is in the final price for a Hong Kong made prop/toy??

Consider MR Classic Trek Communicator = $300.00 (What do think they COST??)

Consider ST Experience Communicator = $49.95 (What do think they COST??)

Consider Art Asylum’s Communicator = $29.95 (What do think they COST??)

Consider that these companies want to make a profit. Say 20% to 50%. And they have investors to pay, who do nothing but lend the money...

Most of these kinds of models cost under $100.00, the coms way under. So your really paying a lot of profit to someone who is able to pony up the money to go to Hong Kong and pony up the money for a large run and yes it is a big risk, but if they sell well a BIG payoff too. (Why do your think investors invested in MR and Art Asylum and others??) (answer: TO MAKE MONEY, and with out work..)

So when you pay for a Hong Kong made model, when you pay more that $100.00 your really paying them for the risk, not the cost to make it, not the labor, but for taking a chance to spend the money up front.

So They make a profit.

Most hand made model makers do not really make a profit, hell most of us barely make minimum wages.

To make a profit you have to make money above your material and labor costs, and a good businessman or accountant will tell you if your paying your self a fair wage and that takes all the money above material costs you not making a profit.

Your just making a living. Earning your wage, your daily bread.

My 2 cents worth.

Rich
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Ham Salad
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

racprops wrote:
Go to Hong Kong??

WAY too much risk.

First risk, as a small one off company


Yes, that is a risk when you're doing a small run...obviously, having them made in a factory isn't cost effective unless you're having a lot of them made.

On the other hand, there's definately a market for handmade, high quality
stuff ...the problem is that if you're going to go for that market, they are going to be very very picky about what they get: people expect value for their money. The more expensive it is, the more they will want. Personally, the standard I've seen is that if I'm paying more than a hundred or so, the thing had better be made of the same materials as the original, be tough as nails and have some sort of working features.


My suggestion would be to either make arrangements with a small-job manufacturer here to create the parts you haven't got the equipment to produce. This also cuts down your labor per item, because you're assembling the units, not making the parts.

Another alternative would be make an economy version that would be less hours to produce but could be sold for less.

Speaking personally, I don't mind paying in the 'less than $100' area for a resin prop that does nothing, but if you told me a really really nice resin prop was $500, I'd tend to balk.

I've seen a lot of this sort of thing in military vehicle collecting: as a matter of fact, I considered doing a run of M3 SMG replicas. A couple of phone calls found me several aluminum casters that would produce a solid metal gun in units of 10 or less for about $50 per unit.

Now, adding some working parts would add to the cost, but there are lots of collectors that would be happuy to pay $300 for a nice aluminum M3 to put in their vehicle, so it seems to me the potential profit is there.

Now, I don't build props professionally anymore, but if I can do that with a couple of phone calls it stands to reason it can be done.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have spent the better part of the past year and ˝ making the last word in the Worldcon Blaster.

And the ONLY way I can get it done is cast pewter, high quality pewter, and then spend hours fitting and making the model.

Here is the thing, a Styer Rifle cost $1200.00 a Bulldog Pistol $350.00 Now add in making all those parts in steel. Throw in a custom 4 inch 44 barrel as Bulldog does not make one, only 3 inch. (Figure around $100.00 up)

Now to really be accurate you need a 1968 Styer Rifle and a 70s style Bulldog.

The current model is as good as I can make it.

Mine is off a 4 number Styer Rifle with the correct markings and time period and a transplanted film correct set of numbers.

And the other parts are either off a copy of a stunt prop or reproduced from one, add in all the fixes using the pictures and you have a accurate model.
I have and will be offering a Plastic and Metal model. Price is $450.00

The all metal model is $850.00

We may also offer a Plastic and Metal sound and light version as well.

And until I clock myself building the next run I think I am not making enough to cover my wages.

Rich
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Ham Salad
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

racprops wrote:
I have spent the better part of the past year and ˝ making the last word in the Worldcon Blaster.

And the ONLY way I can get it done is cast pewter, high quality pewter, and then spend hours fitting and making the model.And until I clock myself building the next run I think I am not making enough to cover my wages.

Rich


Want the address of that aluminum casting place? It just seems to me you are working WAY too hard...
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racprops
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of luck.

Rich
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amish
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think each of you that have gotten into a debate in this thread is extremely talented; however, I think enough is enough so I am doing the following:

I have split out a majority of the posts here that got a bit heated. You can find the remainder of this thread in the PIT where anyone that wishes can continue the heated conversation.

http://propsummit.com/viewforum.php?f=8

I will not lock, delete, or hush people, but I would like people to respect that if you want to continue arguing in this manner, please do it in the PIT.

Thanks for listening.

Tom
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