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BLADE RUNNER LOGO DESIGN
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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
repdetect said :
Now your analysis is more and more outstanding !!!!!...congrats Fred !


Waoww, thanks Phil !

That's what happens when you begin to scratch things, new layers appear... I really LIKE this kind of discoveries, especially on movies as inspiring as BR !
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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's talk about to the "SS" chevron seen at the back of the Spinner...

It was first intended as an arm band patch on the cops uniform (see Tom Southwell's handwritten note below the band design).
Inspired by German 3rd Reich cuff-titles, it would have been worn on the left forearm, but the cops ended with a mini computer / comlink here instead. Follow this link for more info :

http://www.propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=522

The Spinner, mainly seen as a police car in the film, inherited this distinctive marking... that makes good sense !

Another thing : All the SS regiments had a distinctive cuff-Title with their name written on it ("Das Reich", "Deutschland", etc), Tom Southwell's "SS" chevron design obviously refers to them...


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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When looking for cuff-titles reference to compare to the Spinner "SS" band design, I've noticed that a lot of 3rd Reich patches featured arrows or lightning symbols, sometimes mixed together... (lightning = blitzkrieg)
I now wonder if that symbol was the main inspiration source for the arrow at the bottom of the Owl "T" logo...



Regarding the unused logo you can see below, Its interlaced, intricate and delicate design is, I think, much more typical of Celtic art (from 5000BC to 16th century) than Native American art.
See by yourself...


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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think this is my final post on this subject...

I won't pretend that Tom Southwell took inspiration from the works of Sonia Delaunay and Roman Cieslewicz, but this strange, unused logo on the right immediately made me think of the "vibrating" images below, on the left...



BTW, Roman Cieslewicz was one of the most influencial graphic designers of the XXth century. He designed a lot of posters and images for museums and newpapers, often using a highly efficient "collage" technique he had learned in Poland, from russian masters. He later moved to France where he became famous for his art.
(He was also one of my masters in art school, one of the best !)

You can see a few of his posters here (sorry, french text only) :

http://paris.blog.lemonde.fr/2007/09/03/hommage-a-roman-cieslewicz-1930-1996/

Well, that's it !

Hope you've enjoyed the show... See you soon with something completely different !

Wink
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BeastMaster
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heh, I just found this thread on google!! some great analisys fred! Smile

thanks for the heads up on Herb Lubalin. He was clearly a massive influence on Southwell.
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Gaff87
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice topic here! Alot of cool designs!!

I noticed on page one about a card Sebastian has, can anybody make out what the writing says next to the 12 and the Y?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gaff87 wrote:
Nice topic here! Alot of cool designs!!

I noticed on page one about a card Sebastian has, can anybody make out what the writing says next to the 12 and the Y?

Pretty sure that the word next to 12 is "CODE". I'm having more trouble with the other one...
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Gaff87
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus6 wrote:
Gaff87 wrote:
Nice topic here! Alot of cool designs!!

I noticed on page one about a card Sebastian has, can anybody make out what the writing says next to the 12 and the Y?

Pretty sure that the word next to 12 is "CODE". I'm having more trouble with the other one...


More luck than me. I couldn't really read either. Thought it could have be "Corp" at one point.
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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BeastMaster wrote:
heh, I just found this thread on google!! some great analisys fred! Smile

thanks for the heads up on Herb Lubalin. He was clearly a massive influence on Southwell.


Many thanks for the nice words, Ed... You made my day ! (it's amazing to know you've found this thread through Google !!!)

Shocked

BTW, I've tried to find evidence of Lou Dorfsmann's work in Tom Southwell's creations for BR, alas I've found NOTHING ! (I like his work for CBS a lot, and if you know Herb Lubalin then I won't explain who "Lou who ?" was, right ?! I say that because I would have liked to display some of his designs in this thread... Too bad !!!)



Fred
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't heard of neither of them before reading this Embarassed so it's good that you pointed them out as it's pretty much your feild Wink

I've ordered a book from the library on Herb. might be good reference for any future BR non-canon designs.

yeah looking on google there's no influence I could see of Lou Dorfsmann's work that relates to BR.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, let me state outright, I did NOT design every graphic in BR!
I didn't do the owl on the Tyrell robe, though it is quite nice. Probably one of the costume designers did it. I love their work.
I graduated from Pratt Institute in '72 and the leading graphics people were Herb Lubalin, Saul Bass, Lou Dorfsman, and Milton Glaser (among many others). All New York guys, I think. I have a particular admiration for Mr Lubalin and his classy and classic approach. You can find a wonderful book on each of these great designers.
When Larry Paul asked me to design a neon sign for the exterior of the club where Zorah dances it was called "The Opera House" , and I took about a day and a half to finish all those swirls. (I have a large collection of examples of this style, however not the exact one shown on this site).
Mr Scott saw this and said the name had changed. I asked if he liked the style or should I do "The Snake Pit" differently, and you know what he said.
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Tom Southwell
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A note about the magazines that have sprung up all over the web:
I didn't put them up. I don't know who did. I designed them quickly in a couple days I think. Droid, however, was done completely by Jack Neville, who ran the graphics department at a big defense contractor. For some reason, Ridley hated us to use the word "android", despite the fact it was in the title of Philip Dicks book. (perhaps he could foresee genetic futures)
Of the remaining magazines,
I wrote the copy, did the sketchy illustrations, and made logos from press- on lettering or hand lettered some layouts. David L Snyder would farm out some of the type setting, photo enlarging, and compositing to Mr Neville as the Macintosh had not yet arrived. I would sandwich ,film negatives, positives, and various color keys (graphic images on clear film) to make a master that would go to a copy shop where color xerox prints would be made. Not the finest reproduction actually but Mr Scott thought it just right, as in his future ... well you saw the film.
Many of the articles were fond tributes to people on staff as is often the case on films. These would have been much better finished if I knew they would be examined so carefully...but no time at the time.
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Tom Southwell
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the Jay Vigon work:
These were probably design preliminaries submitted to the studio by an advertising company under contract to Warner Bros. They get to see a rough cut of the film and are handed a big stack of photos to create a complete campaign for the film. It's not uncommon for 3 or 4 companies to create campaigns. John Alvin's poster art was selected by Warner Bros. despite Mr Scott favoring Drew Struzan's art.
The owl in Jays design must have been seen on one of his photos.
When Drew did the poster for Goonies, he did a perfect representation of my map design behind the kids. When Drew did the poster for the BR Final Cut he added more of the neon I had drawn.
And a major contributor to this blog shot a photo of me pointing to the neon on the poster on the occasion of the release of Final Cut and party at The Bradbury!
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valuable info for sure; learning fast about the process of farming out projects (more difficult to find the kind of material/pictures/drawings the other graphic artists have used).

Rep13 (Dave) has tried to find the complete cover of FASH Magazine but to no avail. Also if Clip Art material/drawings were used also to accelerate the process and used for certain covers)...we have also discovered much of the LetraSet fonts on those as well.

It's true that all those were not necessarily supposed to be dissected to death but we are a passionate bunch in need of answers
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do have a Fash somewhere but still not sure about the posting.
Perhaps I'll learn.
The logo of the x inside the circle was pretty close to a direct lift from an Indian basket. I'll try to find my photo of that basket.
And about Lou Dorfsman, who was a close friend of Herb Lubalin, there was nothing particular of his that I stole, or used or fashioned something from so you can stop searching for that... But in terms of a quest for quality or getting eclectic like Mr Scott wanted me to be, he was a hero of mine. He did a wall in the commissary at CBS that was a masterpiece of graphic design. I think it's in his book, which wasn't out back then, but I saw it first hand. Every inch of the wall was covered with some prop, or carved word or graphic decoration. I used this idea to help me jam more and more stuff into the movie to get it the way Mr Scott saw it. Does that help?
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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Southwell wrote:
First, let me state outright, I did NOT design every graphic in BR!


And that's when I'm going to ask if you don't mind : Who were the others ?




Tom Southwell wrote:

I didn't do the owl on the Tyrell robe, though it is quite nice. Probably one of the costume designers did it. I love their work.


Damn, now that you tell us this it sounds so obvious ! Should have guessed !

Shocked

Tom Southwell wrote:

I graduated from Pratt Institute in '72 and the leading graphics people were Herb Lubalin, Saul Bass, Lou Dorfsman, and Milton Glaser (among many others). All New York guys, I think. I have a particular admiration for Mr Lubalin and his classy and classic approach. You can find a wonderful book on each of these great designers.


Don't worry Tom, although I graduated from ESAG Penninghen in Paris in 1988, these guys were also (and still are) my heroes.
Of course I have the books devoted to their work (The Saul Bass book that was released a year ago by his daughter is a beauty), the sad thing is that young generations of graphic designers (at least in France) seem to have forgotten about them...

A tragedy not that surprising in an era ruled by "sample & forget" artists... (damn, I sound like an old fart now...)
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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Southwell wrote:

The logo of the x inside the circle was pretty close to a direct lift from an Indian basket. I'll try to find my photo of that basket.


Excellent ! Of course I'd be more than interested to see it !

Cool

Tom Southwell wrote:

And about Lou Dorfsman...

...But in terms of a quest for quality or getting eclectic like Mr Scott wanted me to be, he was a hero of mine. He did a wall in the commissary at CBS that was a masterpiece of graphic design.

...I used this idea to help me jam more and more stuff into the movie to get it the way Mr Scott saw it. Does that help?


Oh YES, I know what you're talking about ! I was amazed by this wall the first time I saw it in the Herb Lubalin book !



Sadly it was removed from the CBS building at some point in the past and badly stored (don't remember where). Last time I heard about it, some guys were trying to restore it to its original glory in order to display it in a museum (iirc)...
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who were the others?
Well the guys at Boss Films (EEG) where the viz fx were done must have done some. Chris Ross designed and built the Alfa Romero, among many others, and Tom Cranam who you see in my segment Signs Of The Times when I say my stuff is passed on and gets altered. You see him drawing. I'm sure he did stuff. He started in aerospace and was an expert at illustrating and designing for effects. A woman illustrator (whose name escapes me) was hired to finish my Baddy tattoos.
The sign shop of BR was originally instructed to implement my designs but as I left for Paris, they did their own.
I was flipping through some stuff today and saw some of my patches on the costume designs of Charles Node. The fact is I drew a series of flat art patches directly from his designs. I did the same for the cars, using Syd Meads graphics as law. Ridley told me to stop that and do my own and get more eclectic ... But use what I had already done.
And as I said, Jack Neville and his staff finished almost everything that was printed. He totally did Droid. The fact of the matter is this: I was really operating the way a print art director works in advertising. But in this case I was illustrating too. Today, with the Mac, the position is called graphic designer. I was also in the union called scenic and title artists, as well as the illustrators union.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skinjob66:
great find! Yes that's Lou with the proud smile of a Papa in front of his wall. Herb did lots of work with him. And the guy who drew most of the hand lettering like my Snake Pit was Tom Carnasae (sp). Together they made the very finest graphics of my time. I'm flattered when someone connects
me to them.

Sad it's gone. A lot of work to keep something white like that fresh especially in a cafeteria.

But CBS was noted for classy graphics.

In Paris in 1981 I got to visit the private library of the Louvre (the cabinet of drawings) to study the original drawings of Alphonse Mucha, famous for his posters of opera done in the art nuevo style of 1900. I used this study to create a logo for BR makeup artist Marvin Westmore of the famous Westmore clan. Perhaps I should attempt to post it here.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a crazy wall Shocked the amount of work to achieve all this is quite incredible.
As a guy from Brussels (Belgium), Art Nouveau is my second love behind Art-Deco. Mucha is one of the pillars of Illustration in that style.
Love it!
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