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SIDERIO QUESTION: COULD WE BUY THE REAL WORLDON MODEL?
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Siderio
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:05 am    Post subject: SIDERIO QUESTION: COULD WE BUY THE REAL WORLDON MODEL? Reply with quote

Thanks to Two-Guns Crowley,

I have changed my mind. I will not left this message board, because wath he said in another post (please give a loog to it) is true. This is wath I tryied to explane, all of us know the most of work put on Blade Runner Blaster is copyied. Firstly from the person that made the real prop. I would be very happy if the maker of the real Blaster comes here and say where he took all parts that composed it. We could give him the credits, and also we can ask to him the rights. Seen that nobody as or are able to take the rights for this prop and produce for the collectors we can assume that all people have the right to do that. Now my simple question is: we know, thanks to Karl Tate photos, that are available a real Blaster made for the movie. Why we don't try to buy that model? I know that probably would be asked an high price. Do you think that $50,000.00 can be accepted from the owner of the WorldCon dicovered model? If yes we could try alltogether to buy it. To pay $50,000.00 we need about 500 collectors that agree to pay $100.00 each one. Than I will be able to recast it for you. Seen that we will be 500 collectors to buy the new replica I would be able to reduce drastically the selling price to $275.00 per kit.So the total cost for the people that will have contibuted to buy the real prop will be $375.00 not more than I ask for my model. You will say, yes Siderio you will make a lot of money, I am sure not.

Now, do you think that we can try to ask to the Owner of the WorldCon model to sell it to us?

I asked this because I just have had some infos from an American friend of mine about a person that has trying to buy that model, the WorlCon model. Now if another person will be able to buy that replica the probably selling price for a built up recasted resin model will be arround $2,500.00. when I talk about speculation now you know wath I mean. Please consider that we can do the difference.

Thnaks
Sireio.
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phase pistol
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The short answer is that I don't think the gun owner will "loan it out" to be recasted. I wouldn't if it were me.

I believe the gun owner is aware of the prop's significance, and my guess is that he would want to sell it to the highest bidder at auction, unless a truly monumental offer were made to him privately. I don't think $50,000 would be enough.

- k
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PlanetLII
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I won't sell it...........................................j/k
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Siderio
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand! But can the owner accept $50,000.00 only to permit us to recast it. Then the gun, without any damages, will be returned to the owner.

Is this possible?

Now I don't now if PlanetLII is joking or it is the real owner, but if he is the owner he thinks that 50,000.00 are to low offer to permit to all us, only to replicate it?

If it is a small offer can we know how much you would like to ask to make us happy?

Thanks,
Siderio.
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phase pistol
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure PlanetLII is kidding.
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The Loyalizer
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Siderio wrote:
Then the gun, without any damages, will be returned to the owner.


Money aside, there's no way to guarantee that it wouldn't get damaged. There's a hundred things that could go wrong between it going from the owner to you. All it would take is some customs inspector opening the package and recognizing the real pistol inside the frame, and its impounded.

Not to mention this prop wasn't built to be disassembled and reassembled. A screw could strip, or the head could break off leaving the threads in the frame. Its over 20 years old, and with the amount of corrosion visible in the barrel, who's to say if some other part of the gun isn't on its last legs and could break even during the most careful disassembly?

As nice as it would be to work off the original, thats just not feasible I think. Personally I'd rather have a replica that was solidly built, properly sized, and didn't explode if my dog sneezed on it. Just my 2 cents.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would no more think of pulling a mold off such a peice of history than chip paint off the Mona Lisa just to sell toys.

I would love to put my latest creation side by side and take more pictures and correct anything I missed, and I would like to find out if you had to remove the ammo housing to reload.

And if allowed to open the clip and see what those two screws do.

Rich
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Once-bitten
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Loyal...it's simply a "one of a kind" prop that in my opinion is PRICELESS.
I'm a little more than suprised that the guy let Karl handle it AND get all those pictures, BUT I'm willing to bet he's applied some re-thinking to how he handles the piece now and who he let's handle it after seeing all the reaction Karls pictures have gotten.

I wonder though if, for the right price, the owner would allow someone to re-examine the piece in his presence, short of dissassembling it, in order to get all the detailed measurements that would be needed to build a SPOT ON 100% accurate CAD model of it?
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Bill Hunt
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention, as contentious as this forum sometimes gets, can you imagine how much worse it would be if 500 people each owned a 1/500th share of ownership? Impractical in the least.

I understand that people want cheaper, more accurate replicas of the Deckard gun. I frankly haven't been following the threads closely enough to know why Rich and Sid made a treaty to work together one day and it suddenly feel apart the next. But I know that Rich works extremely hard on his replicas and his effort and attention to detail shows. You definitely get what you pay for. His craftsmanship is superb, and considering his margins, his time and his materials, the price he asks isn't unreasonable, even if it is outside the budgets of many collectors.

Bill Hunt
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spinner44.com
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill,

I have to disagree with you on Rich's gun being affordable, especially for what you receive. I think you have to look how his product sells on the secondary market. They average about 60% of the original price as sold by Rich, unless you are talking about the metal ones he produced. Sometimes you may actually receive more than what you paid, although I think those times are past.

The following is adapted from my post in another thread: I can't fault Rich for being upset, but just as any business would look at it - it is up to the business to offer a better and more affordable product if they plan to sell more. Otherwise you will have to sell fewer or their product. The waning prop market doesn't help either.

Ranting at the situation only deafens the public. Hey, nobody likes a whiner, right? Create a better and more affordable mouse trap to snare your potential customers.

While not a fan of recasting, even though to a degree reaping profits off someone else's work (producers of the film) is not much different, it really comes down to economics in the end for a vast majority of people. Honestly Sid has given the most, fair price for a metal version other than the Chinese one you can find on Ebay.

Being a designer myself, I have to keep up on education and the latest techniques to stay competitive but I really can't charge more than the market will bear. In this economy you have to be flexible when in business. It's more about averages than how many crumbs one can get now and not leave money on the table. It tends to alienate people from doing business with you in the future. Some may even see it as nothing more than greed or desperation.


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Bill Hunt
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't specific. I WAS talking about his new all-metal version. I don't know much about his older versions and have never seen one.

I never actually said his all-metal version was affordable, just that the price he asks for it isn't unreasonable, given the amount of effort he puts into it. People here seem to be talking more about his older versions, or the kit versions, which I can't speak to.

I also can't comment as to any ranting being done by either party, because I don't have much patience for reading it and also, frankly, I just don't have to the time to follow such debates in depth.

As for recasting... I think Rich does have a point. If people simply took the fruit of my extensive efforts and copied it and then used that to make a cheaper version that they turned around and sold in competition with mine, all without even due credit, I'd be upset too. That's hardly fair. On the other hand, it's certainly true that if you charge more than most in the market will bear, you probably won't sell many items except to those few who can afford it. And as no one has been granted an actual license to produce prop replicas in this case, it's a gray area anyway.

Frankly, I think it's a shame that this failed collaboration (which seems to have lasted less that a couple days?) went south. It seemed like a pretty fair arrangement to me, from what little I could see.

Ah well. These things happen. Best wishes to all concerned, regardless.

Bill
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Siderio
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, a more easy way!!! Go to the owner and use a laser scanner, there are many portable and they are also for rental, or better here in Italy you can rent a scanner. Then send me the scannered image and I will made the parts through CNC machine.

Siderio.
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Once-bitten
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure...Rich has a point.
But have you stopped to consider that even Rich, by his own terms, is a recaster?
Did Rich ask Steyer permission to RECAST their parts for a proffit? Probably not. But he did it FIRST so that gives him some kind of claim? Does he have a copyright? Does he OWN the rights to the Blade-Runner Blaster design?! NO HE DOES NOT...and thank God or we would ALL be paying through the nose to own one.

I have to say that, as far as RECASTING goes, the commen practice is to RECAST from anothers work and immediatley turn around and try to sell the cast for proffit...Siderio has not done this.
Siderio has IMPROVED on the cast and offered what he has done for LESS than the OTHER offered price...therefore he is not a thief but an artist and a good buisness person.
And NO I'm NOT kissing ass here I'm simply telling it like it is.
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Judge Minty
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once-bitten wrote:
Sure...Rich has a point.
But have you stopped to consider that even Rich, by his own terms, is a recaster?
Did Rich ask Steyer permission to RECAST their parts for a proffit? Probably not. But he did it FIRST so that gives him some kind of claim? Does he have a copyright? Does he OWN the rights to the Blade-Runner Blaster design?! NO HE DOES NOT...and thank God or we would ALL be paying through the nose to own one.


Aren't all posts on the Rich Siderio saga meant to be in other parts of the forum?

I thinks Rich's comment was that you should find and buy you own Steyer and create your own cast, instead of short cutting using someone else work. I don't think he ever claimed to have copyright on the Steyer.

Recasting may be common practice, but that doesn't make it right, even if its done well and cheaper.

I agree it's a little bit strong Rich condemning those how are prepared the deal with Siderio, after all he was prepared to deal with him, even though he would probably still be recasting other peoples work. It's a nasty mess of moral and financial arguments which I'm going to bow out of now.
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Once-bitten
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm right there with you MINTY, but I felt compelled to comment being an EX Rich customer who got labeled as "questionable" because I DARED to ask for my money back and then wrote a review about it...
I WAS responding to Bill above:
Quote:
I think Rich does have a point.

You are probably right, this belongs in the Pit.
Sorry all.
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Judge Minty
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Once-Bitten a wasn't saying it was you in-particular that took the thread off subject It's such a juicy subject that it's difficult not to bring it up in most WorldCon based threads. Wink

I'm not a moderator, personally I love going off subject, but these threads keeping getting moved and it's getting hard to keep track. Wink
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Once-bitten
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit being a bit confused here myself...
At least I can say with some confidence that I don't feel "Judged" by you in any way! Very Happy
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amish
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the moving of threads. I have moved some that have been completely off-topic and other just pieces of which take away from the original intent of the thread and spin it way off. Others I have not touched because it is becoming confusing, as some have pointed out, to follow.

So I am only trying to move complete threads from this sub-forum or others that do not belong here.

In short, if you have something to say about the WorldCon I would ask it being posted in this sub-forum. If you have something to say about the BR Blaster in general, I think you could post here or in the Replica and Screen Used Props area, if you have something to say about someones habbits of selling or buying, I would think the Sellers or Buyers forum would be good.

I will not delete a post or take a person's right to post simply because they disagree with other people. I will not shut down free discussion because all that is being said is important. The only thing I will do is move it to the appropriate places where the discussion can continue.

I used bold, so if anyone read this and wondered what is going on, they will know that they are still free to discuss things, just do it in the proper place.

Thanks for everyone's understanding!

Tom
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Bill Hunt
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I'm going to make an attempt at neutral observation. As a relative newcomer to this forum, it seems clear to me that a lot of these discsussions about who makes the better blaster, and who's screwing who, and whose prices are more fair - they're all happening in the context of a few years worth of pent up frustration, anger and hard feelings.

Maybe it would do everyone a little good to take a couple hours, and go pop in your new copies of Blade Runner, and remember that everyone here is here for the love of the film, etc. You know, I acknowledge that there have been some rants and knee-jerk responses, but in the end, it seems to me that both parties being discussed (and many others as well) have made significant and important contributions to the community. Just try to keep things in that perspective. I've personally been impressed by just about everything I've seen here in terms of people's work, so take a moment to be proud of that.

Okay... that's it. Just thought it needed to be said. Wink

Bill Hunt


Last edited by Bill Hunt on Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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spinner44.com
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill, you have said it very well.

Please stop the drama. Let's enjoy and celebrate the film the way we know how to. Through the props.
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